Oslo Bombing and Utøya Shootings

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not surprising.


The really sad thing is that all this load of sh*t won't stop the rise of the Lega, of the FN or of other parties. It won't even stop "respectable" right-wing parties from allying with them.

These events tend not to stall ideology. The prolonged actions of the Red Army Faction didn't have much of an effect on Marxists or Trotskyists. ETA's actions didn't stop people believing in Basque Independence etc.

It is not ideology itself which poses problem, but rather its implication : scapegoating of immigrants and people who support them, developping a complex of besieged fortress, and assimilating difference with a threat. This kind of rhetoric is naturally tied to the use of violence, just like a certain kind of Marxist rhetoric (not the Marxist ideology itself) was.

[Tender Branson]

New Austrian OGM poll:

1) Do you think there will be similar terrorist attacks in Austria like there were in Norway ?

35% Yes
54% No

2) If there were more attacks in Europe in the future, which do you think will happen more ?

45% Muslim extremist attacks
36% Right-Wing extremist attacks

3) Do you think that the FPÖ and right-wing parties are partially to blame for the Norway attacks ?

35% they are partially to blame
43% the attacks are used to blame the right-wing parties

4) Do you think that the police should more strongly observe internet communication in Austria ?

64% Yes
29% No

http://kurier.at/nachrichten/4064576.php

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Number 5 is troubling TB.......people want less freedom?

[Tender Branson]

Number 5 is troubling TB.......people want less freedom?

After events like this there is normally an instinctive reaction for more security measures.

I guess most ÖVP/FPÖ/BZÖ voters support this and also a good deal of SPÖ voters, with the Greens opposed.

[ZuWo]

New Austrian OGM poll:

3) Do you think that the FPÖ and right-wing parties are partially to blame for the Norway attacks ?

35% they are partially to blame
43% the attacks are used to blame the right-wing parties

http://kurier.at/nachrichten/4064576.php

These numbers probably reflect the political landscape in Austria: Autrians who support center-right or right-wing parties are not likely to think that the FPÖ and similar parties are to blame, while left-wing people tend to think these parties are - at least partially - responsible for the attacks (which I think they are not).

[Tender Branson]

New Austrian OGM poll:

3) Do you think that the FPÖ and right-wing parties are partially to blame for the Norway attacks ?

35% they are partially to blame
43% the attacks are used to blame the right-wing parties

http://kurier.at/nachrichten/4064576.php

These numbers probably reflect the political landscape in Austria: Autrians who support center-right or right-wing parties are not likely to think that the FPÖ and similar parties are to blame, while left-wing people tend to think these parties are - at least partially - responsible for the attacks (which I think they are not).

Austria is in its structure a conservative and law-and-order country, therefore these numbers make sense, because the center-right parties as you said will give the leftist media the blame and the left parties will give the extreme right the blame and more people associate with the right-wingers (60%) than with the left-wingers (40%). People also say: We are ordinary citizens, he have nothing to hide. We are on Facebook, so yeah - you can increase Internet observation.

[Lief 🗽]

It's a dumb question. Why would an Austrian political party be responsible for attacks in Norway?

[ZuWo]

It's a dumb question. Why would an Austrian political party be responsible for attacks in Norway?

I think the question points towards the claim that right-wing parties like the FPÖ all across Europe have created a climate of hate against Muslims and left parties in general, a climate which is said to have laid the ground for the shootings in Norway. I've heard and read a lot of these claims but I would personally be wary about making such assertions.

[redcommander]

So now that the right-wing press can't use this story to demonize Muslims, they're using it to complain that Norway's prisons aren't brutal, rape-filled torture dungeons, like in the good old, high-crime rate U.S. of A.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1384308/Norways-controversial-cushy-prison-experiment--catch-UK.html#ixzz1T87LmDUZ

http://nation.foxnews.com/norway-attacks/2011/07/26/norway-terrorist-could-be-held-progressive-luxury-prison

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html

I'm sorry but that's Fuc%ed up. Breivik killed 76 people. He should get the needle in his arm, or at least thrown in a prison with Soviet style conditions as far as I and many other people are concerned, not recording songs, enjoying state of the art healthcare, or learning how to make sorbet.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ah, but the thing is that your concerns are more or less entirely irrelevant. Of course given what he did, he's not going to have a nice time inside no matter how relatively civilised the prisons in Norway are. And right now he is, I think, in solitary.

[republicanism]

Of course given what he did, he's not going to have a nice time inside no matter how relatively civilised the prisons in Norway are.

Yeah, I was thinking about that too.
Do they have common showers in Norwegian prisons...?

[minionofmidas]

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What?

[Tender Branson]

Meanwhile, FPÖ politicians like the Austrian MP Werner Königshofer have put the Norway murders in relation with extremist Muslim attacks around the globe and said that they have happened "thousands of times" so far contrary to the Norway attack.

Some of his facebook friends even called for the execution of Vienna Mayor Michael Häupl and also said that Breivik is a freedom fighter ...

Today, Königshofer went a step further and put the Norway massacre into context with abortion.

He said that abortion kills millions in Europe each year and asked the Social Democrats to abandon their slogan "My stomach belongs to me."

FPÖ-party leader Strache is currently on vacation in Ibiza, Spain - but it is said that he will have a meeting with Königshofer once he`s back in Austria and decide wether he stays in the party or not.

http://www.krone.at/Oesterreich/FPOeler_vergleicht_Norwegen_jetzt_mit_Abtreibungen-Tiger_kommentiert-Story-274465

Königshofer has been thrown out of the FPÖ today by party leader Strache.

http://www.ots.at/presseaussendung/OTS_20110728_OTS0139/hc-strache-koenigshofer-aus-fpoe-ausgeschlossen

[afleitch]

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What?

I was stressing that terror attacks, despite being condemned by those share a similar ideology to the perpetrators, don't really damage the ideology itself in the eyes of it's own supporters. I probably should have written 'ism' rather than 'ist'

[Middle-aged Europe]

Well, the NPD has finally weighed in on this one and they basically accused the "mainstream" parties of hypocrisy:

While Germany's political elite tends to "celebrate" the anniversary of the failed assassination attempt on Hitler on July 20, 1944, Breivik's actions are now suddenly supposed to be bad for some reason.

[republicanism]

Well, the NPD has finally weighed in on this one and they basically accused the "mainstream" parties of hypocrisy:

While Germany's political elite tends to "celebrate" the anniversary of the failed assassination attempt on Hitler on July 20, 1944, Breivik's actions are now suddenly supposed to be bad for some reason.

Seriously? Wow. One should not be surprised, but still...

[Yelnoc]

So now that the right-wing press can't use this story to demonize Muslims, they're using it to complain that Norway's prisons aren't brutal, rape-filled torture dungeons, like in the good old, high-crime rate U.S. of A.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1384308/Norways-controversial-cushy-prison-experiment--catch-UK.html#ixzz1T87LmDUZ

http://nation.foxnews.com/norway-attacks/2011/07/26/norway-terrorist-could-be-held-progressive-luxury-prison

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html

I'm sorry but that's Fuc%ed up. Breivik killed 76 people. He should get the needle in his arm, or at least thrown in a prison with Soviet style conditions as far as I and many other people are concerned, not recording songs, enjoying state of the art healthcare, or learning how to make sorbet.

I give this guy a week in the General Population before getting shanked.

[minionofmidas]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What?

I was stressing that terror attacks, despite being condemned by those share a similar ideology to the perpetrators, don't really damage the ideology itself in the eyes of it's own supporters.

Which is about as wrong as it could possibly be in the case of the example you cited...

[ZuWo]

Well, the NPD has finally weighed in on this one and they basically accused the "mainstream" parties of hypocrisy:

While Germany's political elite tends to "celebrate" the anniversary of the failed assassination attempt on Hitler on July 20, 1944, Breivik's actions are now suddenly supposed to be bad for some reason.

Seriously? Wow. One should not be surprised, but still...

I've checked their website and was surprised they described Hitler as a "dictator". Must have been hard for them to disguise their real feelings toward Hitler by insulting their secret great leader.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I've never understood how neo-NAZIs can both

A - think that Hitler never did the holocaust
B - think we should do a holocaust now

What do they think he was a failure?

[minionofmidas]

Few if any neo nazis and "Holocaust Deniers" think it didn't happen full stop; usually they twiddle with details and make exaggerated claims about exaggeration of the event and its significance by mainstream history. And by World Jewry, of course, which presumably sacrificed a couple million worthless Ostjuden (surely they can't have been six million!? I want to know who counted.) to get its goal of a colony of its own, or something. (Who said, "there's no business like shoah business"?)

[minionofmidas]

Although I'm more amused by the NPD's attempts to board (late) the Antiislamic Racism train without throwing its Antisemitic baggage overboard.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Although I'm more amused by the NPD's attempts to board (late) the Antiislamic Racism train without throwing its Antisemitic baggage overboard.

The NPD basically wants to deport all Muslims back to the Arab world, so that these Muslims can destroy Israel.

[Tender Branson]

Norway ruling party more popular

Oslo - Norway's ruling Labour Party, which was the target of the bloody twin attacks on July 22, has seen its popularity soar since the massacre, a poll published on Sunday showed.

Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg's party received 41.7% support in a Synovate poll of 500 people carried out between July 29-30 - a hike of 11.1 percentage points from a similar poll conducted a month ago.

The populist right Progress Party, of which the confessed killer Anders Behring Breivik had been a member until 2006, meanwhile lost three points, landing at 16.5% support.

The immigration-sceptical party, which has long held the position of Norway's second largest party and the largest one in opposition, was thus trailing far behind the opposition Conservative Party, although it too took a hit, falling to 23.7% from 28.5% in June.

Stoltenberg, whose own offices were among those hit in the bombing in Oslo that killed eight people and whose party's island youth camp was the site of a shooting massacre that killed 69 others, has been widely hailed for his handling of the crisis.

He has been lauded for his calls for tolerance and his calming presence and support to victims and their families.

Behring Breivik, 32, has said he carried out the attacks that left a total of 77 dead to ward off a "Muslim invasion" and fight European multiculturalism.

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Norway-ruling-party-more-popular-20110731

[republicanism]

Although I'm more amused by the NPD's attempts to board (late) the Antiislamic Racism train without throwing its Antisemitic baggage overboard.

True.

Usually the extreme right has to decide if they want to focus on antisemitism / antizionism or on islamophobia.
In a way, the extreme left does the same, at least in Germany.