Omnibus Appropriation Bill

[Bono]

Section 1

Money shall be appropriated from the treasury as follows:

Military Spending ($481.23 billion: increased $20.84 billion)

$129.48 billion .... Military personnel
    Increased $11.77 bil. from base of $117.711 bil.( 10%)
$168.47 billion .... Operation and maintenance (No Change)
$89.01 billion ..... Procurement
    Increased $8.09 bil. from base of $80.920 bil.( 10%)
$64.67 billion ..... Research, development, test and evaluation (No Change)
$10.76 billion ..... Military Construction, Family Housing and Other
    Increased $0.97 bil. from base of $9.785 bil.( 10%)
$16.75 billion ..... Atomic Energy Defense Activities (No Change)
$2.09 billion ...... Defense Related activities (No Change)

Iraq War ($45 billion: cut $4.99 billion)

$45 billion ........ Iraq War
    Cut $4.99 bil. from base of $50.0 bil.(-10%)

Veterans and Military Retirement ($106.03 billion: increased $3.54 billion)

$38.97 billion ..... Military retirement pensions
    Increased $3.54 bil. from base of $35.431 bil.( 10%)
$37.18 billion ..... Income security for veterans (No Change)
$2.38 billion ...... Veterans education, training, and rehabilitation (No Change)
$26.23 billion ..... Hospital and medical care for veterans (No Change)
$1.27 billion ...... Housing and other veterans benefits and services (No Change)

International affairs ($12.2 billion: cut $11.58 billion)

$0 billion ......... International development aid and financial programs
    Cut $7.91 bil. from base of $7.920 bil.(-100%)
$3.67 billion ...... International military aid
    Cut $3.65 bil. from base of $7.334 bil.(-50%)
$7.54 billion ...... Conduct of Foreign Affairs (No Change)
$0.99 billion ...... Foreign information and exchange activities (No Change)

General science, space, and technology ($19.68 billion: cut $3.78 billion)

$4.87 billion ...... National Science Foundation programs
    Cut $0.53 bil. from base of $5.413 bil.(-10%)
$3.23 billion ...... Department of Energy & Homeland Security general science programs
    Cut $0.34 bil. from base of $3.584 bil.(-10%)
$11.58 billion ..... Space flight, research, and supporting activities
    Cut $2.89 bil. from base of $14.476 bil.(-20%)

Non-Defense Energy Spending ($0.88 billion)

$0.52 billion ...... Energy supply and conservation (No Change)
$0.36 billion ...... Energy information, preparedness, & regulation (No Change)

Natural resources and environment ($24.96 billion: cut $5.43 billion)

$4.32 billion ...... Water resources
    Cut $0.46 bil. from base of $4.795 bil.(-10%)
$8.39 billion ...... Forest Service, Conservation and land management
    Cut $2.09 bil. from base of $10.493 bil.(-20%)
$2.73 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources
    Cut $0.29 bil. from base of $3.029 bil.(-10%)
$6.83 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement
    Cut $0.75 bil. from base of $7.593 bil.(-10%)
$2.69 billion ...... Other natural resources
    Cut $1.79 bil. from base of $4.490 bil.(-40%)

Agriculture ($16.99 billion: cut $4.14 billion)

$16.99 billion ..... Farm income stabilization & crop insurance (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Agricultural research and services
    Cut $4.14 bil. from base of $4.154 bil.(-100%)

Commerce and housing credit ($-0.06 billion: cut $8.75 billion)

$-0.12 billion ..... Mortgage credit
    Increased $0.07 bil. from base of $-.188 bil.(-30%)
$0.06 billion ...... Postal service (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Deposit insurance (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Other advancement of commerce
    Cut $8.81 bil. from base of $8.825 bil.(-100%)

Transportation ($63.71 billion)

$31.25 billion ..... Highways & Highway safety (No Change)
$7.23 billion ...... Mass transit (No Change)
$1.09 billion ...... Railroads (No Change)
$17.37 billion ..... Air Transportion (No Change)
$6.48 billion ...... Water transportation (No Change)
$0.29 billion ...... Other transportation
    Cut $0.11 bil. from base of $0.413 bil.(-30%)

Community and regional development ($6.05 billion: cut $7.53 billion)

$0 billion ......... Community development
    Cut $5.16 bil. from base of $5.170 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Area and regional development
    Cut $2.37 bil. from base of $2.378 bil.(-100%)
$6.05 billion ...... Disaster relief and insurance (No Change)

Education, training, employment, and social services ($40.01 billion: cut $41.78 billion)

$35.75 billion ..... Elementary, Secondary & Vocational education (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Higher education
    Cut $22.55 bil. from base of $22.563 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Research and general education aids
    Cut $2.88 bil. from base of $2.891 bil.(-100%)
$4.26 billion ...... Training and employment
    Cut $2.83 bil. from base of $7.099 bil.(-40%)
$0 billion ......... Rehabilitation services
    Cut $2.99 bil. from base of $3.003 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Other social and family services
    Cut $10.48 bil. from base of $10.487 bil.(-100%)

Non-Medicare Health Spending ($187.86 billion: cut $57.92 billion)

$146.03 billion .... Medicaid grants
    Cut $36.5 bil. from base of $182.542 bil.(-20%)
$0.74 billion ...... State Children's Health Insurance (No Change)
$7.43 billion ...... Federal employees' and retired employees' health benefits (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Indian health
    Cut $2.88 bil. from base of $2.889 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Substance abuse and mental health services
    Cut $3.38 bil. from base of $3.393 bil.(-100%)
$33.66 billion ..... Health research, training and disease control (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Consumer and occupational health and safety
    Cut $2.87 bil. from base of $2.876 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Other health care services
    Cut $12.24 bil. from base of $12.254 bil.(-100%)

Medicare ($252.64 billion: cut $5.99 billion)

$160.47 billion .... Hospital insurance (HI) (No Change)
$92.17 billion ..... Supplementary medical insurance (SMI) (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Medicare modernization (proposed)
    Cut $5.99 bil. from base of $6.000 bil.(-100%)

Non-SS Retirement and Unemployment ($96.85 billion)

$0 billion ......... General retirement and disability insurance (excluding social security) (No Change)
$53.72 billion ..... Civilian retirement and disability programs (No Change)
$43.13 billion ..... Unemployment compensation (No Change)

Social Welfare Spending ($100.27 billion: cut $82.22 billion)

$27.11 billion ..... Housing assistance
    Cut $3 bil. from base of $30.119 bil.(-10%)
$24.96 billion ..... Food stamps
    Cut $2.76 bil. from base of $27.729 bil.(-10%)
$12.48 billion ..... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches)
    Cut $5.34 bil. from base of $17.833 bil.(-30%)
$0 billion ......... Supplemental security income (SSI)
    Cut $33.46 bil. from base of $33.470 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Family support payments
    Cut $17.68 bil. from base of $17.690 bil.(-100%)
$31.38 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Low income home energy assistance
    Cut $1.99 bil. from base of $2.0 bil.(-100%)
$4.34 billion ...... Child care funds
    Cut $0.47 bil. from base of $4.817 bil.(-10%)
$0 billion ......... Other family and child support
    Cut $17.46 bil. from base of $17.467 bil.(-100%)

Social security ($498.84 billion)

$418.25 billion .... Old-age and survivors insurance(OASI) (No Change)
$80.59 billion ..... Disability insurance (DI) (No Change)

Administration of justice ($39.74 billion)

$16.88 billion ..... Federal Law Enforcement (No Change)
$10.89 billion ..... Federal litigation and judicial activities
    Increased $0.99 bil. from base of $9.897 bil.( 10%)
$5.91 billion ...... Federal prison activities (No Change)
$6.06 billion ...... Criminal justice assistance (No Change)

General government administration ($19.48 billion)

$3.37 billion ...... Legislative functions (No Change)
$0.66 billion ...... Executive Office programs (No Change)
$11.29 billion ..... Collection of taxes & fiscal opertations (No Change)
$0.84 billion ...... General property and records management (No Change)
$2.33 billion ...... General purpose fiscal assistance (DC, Puerto Rico, etc.) (No Change)
$0.99 billion ...... Other general government (No Change)

Net interest ($233.21 billion: increased $70.5 billion)

$422.8 billion ..... Interest paid on national public debt
    Increased $70.47 bil. from base of $352.335 bil.( 20%)
$-38.71 billion .... Civil Service retirement/disability surplus (No Change)
$-13.69 billion .... Military retirement surplus (No Change)
$-17.31 billion .... Medicare surplus (No Change)
$-88.69 billion .... Social Security trust fund surpluses (No Change)
$-31.19 billion .... Other interest surpluses (No Change)

Undistributed offsetting receipts ($-53.64 billion)

$-49.47 billion .... Employer share, employee retirement (off-budget) (No Change)
$-3.98 billion ..... Rents and royalties on the Outer Continental Shelf (No Change)
$-0.19 billion ..... Spectrum Auction (No Change)

Total: 2,191,930,000,000$

[Bono]

Section 2

§1 The Education and Care for Children in Poverty Act is hereby repealed.

§2 The following programs are canceled:
--International development aid and financial programs;
--Agricultural research and services;
--Other advancement of commerce;
--Community development;
--Area and regional development;
--Higher education;
--Research and general education aids;
--Rehabilitation services of the Department of Education;
--Other social and family services of the Department of Education;
--Indian health;
--Substance abuse and mental health services;
--Consumer and occupational health and safety;
--Other health care services;
--Medicare modernization (proposed);
--Supplemental security income (SSI);
--Family support payments;
--Low income home energy assistance;
--Other family and child support.

[Bono]

I ask that this be given priority in the debate, since it is of vital importance.

[12th Doctor]

How about... no?

[Sam Spade]

I respect what you're trying to do Bono, and I hate to say it, but with the results of the recent elections, I think that any hopes of fiscal responsibility and paring down the size and scope of the Atlasia central government have gone down the toilet, so to speak.

[Bono]

I respect what you're trying to do Bono, and I hate to say it, but with the results of the recent elections, I think that any hopes of fiscal responsibility and paring down the size and scope of the Atlasia central government have gone down the toilet, so to speak.

PRESS ON. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing in the world is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Calvin Coolidge

[??????????]

I back this bill fully and hope my fellow senators will give this a resounding YEA!

[Sam Spade]

I respect what you're trying to do Bono, and I hate to say it, but with the results of the recent elections, I think that any hopes of fiscal responsibility and paring down the size and scope of the Atlasia central government have gone down the toilet, so to speak.

PRESS ON. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing in the world is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Calvin Coolidge

I didn't say you should quit, Bono.  I was just expressing an opinion. 

[Akno21]

Section 2

§1 The Education and Care for Children in Poverty Act is hereby repealed.

§2 The following programs are canceled:
--International development aid and financial programs;
--Agricultural research and services;
--Other advancement of commerce;
--Community development;
--Area and regional development;
--Higher education;
--Research and general education aids;
--Rehabilitation services of the Department of Education;
--Other social and family services of the Department of Education;
--Indian health;
--Substance abuse and mental health services;
--Consumer and occupational health and safety;
--Other health care services;
--Medicare modernization (proposed);
--Supplemental security income (SSI);
--Family support payments;
--Low income home energy assistance;
--Other family and child support.

You better make sure you never walk unprotected in areas that are full of people who use these, Bono, they may be a bit angry.

[StevenNick]

They may be angry but I'm pleased as punch.

[The Duke]

As for DoD, the $8 billion for R&D and for Atomic energy could be better used for procurement of new equipment and a second expansion of the force structure.

[True Democrat]

This bill cuts way, way too many important programs, such as:

Section 1

Iraq War ($45 billion: cut $4.99 billion)

$45 billion ........ Iraq War
 Cut $4.99 bil. from base of $50.0 bil.(-10%)

International affairs ($12.2 billion: cut $11.58 billion)

$0 billion ......... International development aid and financial programs
 Cut $7.91 bil. from base of $7.920 bil.(-100%)
$3.67 billion ...... International military aid
 Cut $3.65 bil. from base of $7.334 bil.(-50%)


General science, space, and technology ($19.68 billion: cut $3.78 billion)

$4.87 billion ...... National Science Foundation programs
 Cut $0.53 bil. from base of $5.413 bil.(-10%)
$3.23 billion ...... Department of Energy & Homeland Security general science programs
 Cut $0.34 bil. from base of $3.584 bil.(-10%)
$11.58 billion ..... Space flight, research, and supporting activities
 Cut $2.89 bil. from base of $14.476 bil.(-20%)

Natural resources and environment ($24.96 billion: cut $5.43 billion)

$4.32 billion ...... Water resources
 Cut $0.46 bil. from base of $4.795 bil.(-10%)
$8.39 billion ...... Forest Service, Conservation and land management
 Cut $2.09 bil. from base of $10.493 bil.(-20%)
$2.73 billion ...... Recreational & Park resources
 Cut $0.29 bil. from base of $3.029 bil.(-10%)
$6.83 billion ...... Pollution control and abatement
 Cut $0.75 bil. from base of $7.593 bil.(-10%)
$2.69 billion ...... Other natural resources
 Cut $1.79 bil. from base of $4.490 bil.(-40%)

Agriculture ($16.99 billion: cut $4.14 billion)

$0 billion ......... Agricultural research and services
 Cut $4.14 bil. from base of $4.154 bil.(-100%)

Commerce and housing credit ($-0.06 billion: cut $8.75 billion)

$0 billion ......... Other advancement of commerce
 Cut $8.81 bil. from base of $8.825 bil.(-100%)

Community and regional development ($6.05 billion: cut $7.53 billion)

$0 billion ......... Community development
 Cut $5.16 bil. from base of $5.170 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Area and regional development
 Cut $2.37 bil. from base of $2.378 bil.(-100%)

Education, training, employment, and social services ($40.01 billion: cut $41.78 billion)

$0 billion ......... Higher education
 Cut $22.55 bil. from base of $22.563 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Research and general education aids
 Cut $2.88 bil. from base of $2.891 bil.(-100%)
$4.26 billion ...... Training and employment
 Cut $2.83 bil. from base of $7.099 bil.(-40%)
$0 billion ......... Rehabilitation services
 Cut $2.99 bil. from base of $3.003 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Other social and family services
 Cut $10.48 bil. from base of $10.487 bil.(-100%)

Non-Medicare Health Spending ($187.86 billion: cut $57.92 billion)

$146.03 billion .... Medicaid grants
 Cut $36.5 bil. from base of $182.542 bil.(-20%)
$0 billion ......... Indian health
 Cut $2.88 bil. from base of $2.889 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Substance abuse and mental health services
 Cut $3.38 bil. from base of $3.393 bil.(-100%)

$0 billion ......... Consumer and occupational health and safety
 Cut $2.87 bil. from base of $2.876 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Other health care services
 Cut $12.24 bil. from base of $12.254 bil.(-100%)

Medicare ($252.64 billion: cut $5.99 billion)


$0 billion ......... Medicare modernization (proposed)
 Cut $5.99 bil. from base of $6.000 bil.(-100%)

Social Welfare Spending ($100.27 billion: cut $82.22 billion)

$27.11 billion ..... Housing assistance
 Cut $3 bil. from base of $30.119 bil.(-10%)
$24.96 billion ..... Food stamps
 Cut $2.76 bil. from base of $27.729 bil.(-10%)
$12.48 billion ..... Other nutrition programs (WIC, school lunches)
 Cut $5.34 bil. from base of $17.833 bil.(-30%)
$0 billion ......... Supplemental security income (SSI)
 Cut $33.46 bil. from base of $33.470 bil.(-100%)
$0 billion ......... Family support payments
 Cut $17.68 bil. from base of $17.690 bil.(-100%)
$31.38 billion ..... Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) (No Change)
$0 billion ......... Low income home energy assistance
 Cut $1.99 bil. from base of $2.0 bil.(-100%)
$4.34 billion ...... Child care funds
 Cut $0.47 bil. from base of $4.817 bil.(-10%)
$0 billion ......... Other family and child support
 Cut $17.46 bil. from base of $17.467 bil.(-100%)

I will never support this bill unless drastic changes are made.  By cutting all of these programs, we would be ruining the government and the lives of Atlasians.  We should not and cannot pass this bill.  I urge my fellow Senators do not pass this bill.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

*A voice from the public gallery...*

While I won't be sworn in for a while yet, I think that if the outgoing Senate passes this it will be a big mistake.

[JohnFKennedy]

As requested I hereby open the debate on this bill.

[JohnFKennedy]

As this seems to contain the same as the Federal Budget effectively, I shall quote my statement on that and say that I hope for a resounding Nay in the Senate.

I oppose this proposed budget. I will lay out the major grounds on which I disagree with this budget, there are a few of these and look at a few of the more minor reasons.

Firstly, I oppose the removal of all international aid as I think as the most developed nation of the world we should attempt to spread the wealth around a little more and attempt to reduce poverty in the developing world. By abolishing all international development aid we condemn the poorer nations of the world to a future of abject poverty which they are unable to escape.

Secondly I oppose the idea of scrapping regional and community aid as this merely has the same effect as the first of my objections except within Atlasia. Such proposals lead to huge inconsistencies in wealth which I cannot support.

Thirdly I oppose the education cuts, whilst I do not support huge education hikes, I do not support suge huge reductions as I see these as being totally detrimental to the future of Atlasia with children not in a stable learning condition.

Fourthly I oppose cuts in social welfare programmes that are so high, whilst some programmes need to be cut and unemployment benefits should be returned to being more of a safety net than a way of life, I see these cuts as far too great to be acceptable. I also oppose cuts in medical spending.

To me this budget would be greatly detrimental to Atlasian society and I cannot support that.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As this seems to contain the same as the Federal Budget effectively, I shall quote my statement on that and say that I hope for a resounding Nay in the Senate.

I oppose this proposed budget. I will lay out the major grounds on which I disagree with this budget, there are a few of these and look at a few of the more minor reasons.

Firstly, I oppose the removal of all international aid as I think as the most developed nation of the world we should attempt to spread the wealth around a little more and attempt to reduce poverty in the developing world. By abolishing all international development aid we condemn the poorer nations of the world to a future of abject poverty which they are unable to escape.

Secondly I oppose the idea of scrapping regional and community aid as this merely has the same effect as the first of my objections except within Atlasia. Such proposals lead to huge inconsistencies in wealth which I cannot support.

Thirdly I oppose the education cuts, whilst I do not support huge education hikes, I do not support suge huge reductions as I see these as being totally detrimental to the future of Atlasia with children not in a stable learning condition.

Fourthly I oppose cuts in social welfare programmes that are so high, whilst some programmes need to be cut and unemployment benefits should be returned to being more of a safety net than a way of life, I see these cuts as far too great to be acceptable. I also oppose cuts in medical spending.

To me this budget would be greatly detrimental to Atlasian society and I cannot support that.

*Applause*

[Akno21]

As this seems to contain the same as the Federal Budget effectively, I shall quote my statement on that and say that I hope for a resounding Nay in the Senate.

I oppose this proposed budget. I will lay out the major grounds on which I disagree with this budget, there are a few of these and look at a few of the more minor reasons.

Firstly, I oppose the removal of all international aid as I think as the most developed nation of the world we should attempt to spread the wealth around a little more and attempt to reduce poverty in the developing world. By abolishing all international development aid we condemn the poorer nations of the world to a future of abject poverty which they are unable to escape.

Secondly I oppose the idea of scrapping regional and community aid as this merely has the same effect as the first of my objections except within Atlasia. Such proposals lead to huge inconsistencies in wealth which I cannot support.

Thirdly I oppose the education cuts, whilst I do not support huge education hikes, I do not support suge huge reductions as I see these as being totally detrimental to the future of Atlasia with children not in a stable learning condition.

Fourthly I oppose cuts in social welfare programmes that are so high, whilst some programmes need to be cut and unemployment benefits should be returned to being more of a safety net than a way of life, I see these cuts as far too great to be acceptable. I also oppose cuts in medical spending.

To me this budget would be greatly detrimental to Atlasian society and I cannot support that.

Gives JFK a standing ovation.

Once Gabu gets sworn in, D5 will certainly have the best Senators, now that I think about it.

[Colin]

Section 1

Money shall be appropriated from the treasury as follows:

Iraq War ($45 billion: cut $4.99 billion)

$45 billion ........ Iraq War
    Cut $4.99 bil. from base of $50.0 bil.(-10%)

I am against any reduction in spending on the Iraq War. The election is coming in a month and a half and according to all sources this is the time when we need more money put to the Iraq rebuilding funds. It would be silly to think that at the time we need the highest amount of readiness in Iraq that we are reducing the Iraq War funds by 5 billion dollars.

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I do not think that we should cut foreign aid. Many countries currently depend on the funds that we give to developing nations. We must not cut off this life line at one time. If we want to ween developing nations off of aid money than we should do it slowly and keep a close eye on the developments in these countries.

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I do not think that Community development should be scrapped all at once. This should be taken in small steps so that communities are gradually weened off of government aid.

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Again these cuts would do more harm than good. Just having the money tap stop flowing all at once would lead to more trouble than good.

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Again cut in gradual steps if you are going to cut. Many of those Mental Health and Substance abuse services are state/government owned hospitals that deal with junkies and people who are determined by the court to be mentally insane. We need them or else their would be no place for the court to seen people for drug treatment or mental help.

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Okay medicare modernization is needed. The current system is failing and these extra funds will help, hopefully to rectify the problem.

All in all I do not support this proposed appropriations bill. While I like what Bono is trying to do reducing government size has to be done gradually not in the giant leaps that he has suggested. I have already said what I do not like about the Iraq War funding that needs to be kept at current levels or even increased as we come up to the very important elections their at the end of January.

[Bono]

Section 1

Money shall be appropriated from the treasury as follows:

Iraq War ($45 billion: cut $4.99 billion)

$45 billion ........ Iraq War
    Cut $4.99 bil. from base of $50.0 bil.(-10%)

I am against any reduction in spending on the Iraq War. The election is coming in a month and a half and according to all sources this is the time when we need more money put to the Iraq rebuilding funds. It would be silly to think that at the time we need the highest amount of readiness in Iraq that we are reducing the Iraq War funds by 5 billion dollars.

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I do not think that we should cut foreign aid. Many countries currently depend on the funds that we give to developing nations. We must not cut off this life line at one time. If we want to ween developing nations off of aid money than we should do it slowly and keep a close eye on the developments in these countries.

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I do not think that Community development should be scrapped all at once. This should be taken in small steps so that communities are gradually weened off of government aid.

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Again these cuts would do more harm than good. Just having the money tap stop flowing all at once would lead to more trouble than good.

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Again cut in gradual steps if you are going to cut. Many of those Mental Health and Substance abuse services are state/government owned hospitals that deal with junkies and people who are determined by the court to be mentally insane. We need them or else their would be no place for the court to seen people for drug treatment or mental help.

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Okay medicare modernization is needed. The current system is failing and these extra funds will help, hopefully to rectify the problem.

All in all I do not support this proposed appropriations bill. While I like what Bono is trying to do reducing government size has to be done gradually not in the giant leaps that he has suggested. I have already said what I do not like about the Iraq War funding that needs to be kept at current levels or even increased as we come up to the very important elections their at the end of January.

I'm not sure you realize, but even with these 'giant leaps' as you descrive them, we are still more than 200 Billion Dolars short of a surplus. YOu want to do this gradualyl, what is the objective, surplus in 2050? No, we are allready drowned in debt. If we do not take imediate action, it will only grow. Also, on a side note, community development is the codename for pork projects...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

communities are gradually weened off of government aid

Which would be a death sentence to thousands of poverty stricken communities all across Atlasia.

[Sam Spade]

communities are gradually weened off of government aid

Which would be a death sentence to thousands of poverty stricken communities all across Atlasia.

The money that we are spending here is mainly going to enlightened bureaucrats to distribute, rather than the poor.

Besides, giving money to the poor does not encourage them to better themselves.  It encourages them to continue being poor.

Private charitable institutions do a much better job with this type of endeavor.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Besides, giving money to the poor does not encourage them to better themselves.  It encourages them to continue being poor.

I thought that kind of attitude died in the depression

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By better job do you mean a better job at improving peoples lives (hah!) or do you mean "costs-me-less-money-so-I-can-go-get-myself-a-new-SUV"?

[John Dibble]

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By better job do you mean a better job at improving peoples lives (hah!) or do you mean "costs-me-less-money-so-I-can-go-get-myself-a-new-SUV"?

It's a question of efficiency. Private charities, in general, are more efficient with their money than government welfare programs. With both, a certain amount of the money collected, through taxes or voluntarily, will go towards administration and distribution costs rather than actually giving the money(or goods bought with the money) to the receiving end. There's also the matter of how well, the money is distributed, though that's a seperate efficiency issue.

Government welfare is greatly inefficient in terms of administration costs. I can't find an exact number(if someone could, please do) but I have heard it is over 50%. Private charities are more likely to have low overhead costs, like the Salvation Army or the American Kidney Foundation, and distribute much more effectively. Also, since these organizations were founded and are run on charitable intent they are run in such a manner as to be charitable, as opposed to welfare, which is established with charitable/political intent and run by beauracrats that really just don't give a damn - it's just a job to them.

[Sam Spade]

Besides, giving money to the poor does not encourage them to better themselves.  It encourages them to continue being poor.

I thought that kind of attitude died in the depression

It never died.  It continues to be true. 

What has the Great Society done to impact poverty rates?  Absolutely nothing. 

If we expanded the Great Society, what would it do to poverty rates?  Absolutely nothing, in fact it might increase them, as it would encourage more people to be poor.

[Sam Spade]

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By better job do you mean a better job at improving peoples lives (hah!) or do you mean "costs-me-less-money-so-I-can-go-get-myself-a-new-SUV"?

It's a question of efficiency. Private charities, in general, are more efficient with their money than government welfare programs. With both, a certain amount of the money collected, through taxes or voluntarily, will go towards administration and distribution costs rather than actually giving the money(or goods bought with the money) to the receiving end. There's also the matter of how well, the money is distributed, though that's a seperate efficiency issue.

Government welfare is greatly inefficient in terms of administration costs. I can't find an exact number(if someone could, please do) but I have heard it is over 50%. Private charities are more likely to have low overhead costs, like the Salvation Army or the American Kidney Foundation, and distribute much more effectively. Also, since these organizations were founded and are run on charitable intent they are run in such a manner as to be charitable, as opposed to welfare, which is established with charitable/political intent and run by beauracrats that really just don't give a damn - it's just a job to them.

My point exactly.  Thanks for the excellent reply, couldn't have done it better myself.