A different "United States"

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

This "United States" consists of the following areas

The Canadian States shown in white:


All of Australia


The State of New Zealand


SUM TOTAL OF STATES: 16 (+ 4 Territories)

The States of Great Britain


And the States of Ireland (Dublin is part of Lienster of course, not an independent state)


SUM TOTAL OF STATES: 31 (+4 Territories)

Plus these "American" states (highlighted in red)

TOTAL STATES: 59 (+5 Territories) [DC is counted as a Territory]

And now for the question....

Presuming this happened between the end of the Civil War (South Victory) and the end of WW2, where we win as usual (Lets say 1955 as the "end date" for the union to be complete) .... What would 2011 politics look like in this country?

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

My thoughts:

NYC would be the Capital.

I think they'd use a Presidential system, and for parties, the Conservatives and Labour would rule using US party rules (IE you "Register" for a party, you don't sign up to one as a private organization like in the UK, Ireland, or Canada)

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Parts of Indiana and Illinois in that scenario might go with the south.

[izixs]

Hmm... I guess it might help to sketch out a brief timeline to help build an idea for how it got to this.

1870s - Second Civil War with the succession crisis out west. OTL California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, maybe Kansas, and the northern half of AZ and NM (the souther half would of gone with the south) get leveraged by local interests (folks that got rich off gold, cattle barons, mormons, and a few others) wishing to repeat the south's success so they can build a loosely aligned coalition of independent states to further their own interests. The mix of economic and religious justification for the split fed into the fears of the rest of the country that this war wasn't worth it given the horrors of the first civil war. And so after a couple years of fighting an agreement is had that lets those states leave.

1880s - Massive political turmoil as Republicans regroup behind the idea that the country can't simply fall apart. Democrats are very disorganized and are blamed for the civil wars. A split in the Republican party between those who okayed the peace of the second civil war and the national solidarity wing leads to the later breaking off and forming the Union Party. By decades end the Democrats had been absorbed almost entirely by the Republicans and Unionists.

1890s - Unionists gain power for most the decade. Govern as classical liberals in most respects but push heavily for federal control and militarism. Unease with the confederacy and the western league peaks and another war is feared. Confederacy becomes allied with the UK. Spanish American war happens similar to OTL except the US maintains strong and direct control over Cuba and the Philippines gain independence. Hawaii is not annexed.

1900s - Unionists maintain power. Teddy Roosevelt is president for a couple terms and makes lots of national parks. A strong socialist party tries to take off but doesn't get very far. Confederacy ends slavery.

1910s - WW1 takes off in a fashion similar to OTL. The Confederacy joins the UK and France early on. Italy ends up siding with Germany and Austria-Hungary. Russia has its revolution. Still dominating the US landscape, the Unionists push for siding against the Confederacy (and thus against the UK and France) but are pushed out of power before they can move the country into war. The war wages on for longer then in OTL especially on the Russian front as with the aid of Italy the central powers refuse to let Russia leave the war and dig deep into the bear.

1920s - The French and Confederate invasion of Italy starts to bring the war to a close. Germany gets beat back on the western front and in 1924 peace is made between the allies (minus Russia) and central powers. The peace is devastating to Germany and most of the western half of the country is broken off to form the Rhine Republic complete with Allies puppet government. The war with Russia ends soon after with the various countries that emerged after the 1917 revolution plus a few others as the combination of desperate German eastern front and a weak Soviet group leads to the near dissolution of western Russia. The US, having stayed out of the war enters a depression earlier then OTL. The Republicans are blamed and the Unionists take over control again.

1930s - The Unionists flounder at building any sort of economic recovery system and are soon reviled as much as the Republicans. Fringe third parties threaten to move into the majority and the 1936 election has a five way split in the electoral college between Republican, Union, Socialist, Progressive, and American Nationalist parties. The highly divided congress eventually settles on a Progressive president (could be FDR but probably someone else given the butterflys about). The Western League splits up and the would be states of the southwest each go their separate ways. A couple become strong allies of the US, just short of wanting to come back. The great depression hits Europe hard. France, Austria, Italy, Rhine, Poland, and eventually the UK all see the rise of fascist parties while other countries (Germany, Hungary, Romania, Latvia, and Spain) end up having more communist themed parties. The Republic of Russia oddly enough establishes a fairly democratic society as it seeks to escape the horrors of the Tsar, Soviets, and WW 1. A Hitler like figure does come to power in Austria. Anti-semitism however plays a large role in the French and Rhine fascist regimes and less so out east. France, UK, and Rhine ally with Italy and Japan to form the True Alliance. Italy starts eating balkan nations and Poland eats Baltic nations and former bits of Russia.

1940s - Rhine invades Germany and WW 2 begins. France starts in on Germany's ally, Spain. Spain calls in Denmark and Russia and... well things get complicated. In the end the major European players on the anti-fascist side end up being Russia, Spain, and Sweden. The Pacific theater goes similar to how it went in OTL except the US gets pulled into the war not by the bombing of Pearl Harbor (Hawaii was the Republic of Hawaii... until it gets taken by Japan) but the bombing of Anchorage. The Confederacy ends up siding with the US as well as the western states.

The short of the war is that the US allies with Spain, Russia, et al and eventually win the day (around 1947 with the atomic bombings of Lyon and Kyoto). The peace treaty signed between the Allies and the True Alliance results in a massive reordering of the world. Spain would gain nominal control over spanish speaking areas that were a part of the hostilities as well as France, Cuba, and Puerto Rico (the later of which had been very unhappy under US rule and so the US was happy to see them go). Russia would gain back territories from True Alliance members that it had controlled before WW 1. Germany would be recreated as a liberal republic and would include Rhine, Austria, and the non-Russia parts of Poland. And the US would gain military rule over most of the british empire. The confederacy would pick up some sections but would quickly give them up.

With the wars eventual success, the Progressives become the dominate party in the US and absorb most the militaristic Unionists while the Republicans become the primary alternative again.

1950s - The US breaks off most the non-english speaking sections of the British Empire and quickly move to integrate Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Ireland. Quebec is given independence. England proper, happy to be free of the fascists, is still a hot bed for most of the decade. The Progressives push hard for statehood of these territories and except for England all these areas are admitted as 'provisional' states by 1955. England is divided up into territorial governments. South Africa is granted independence after the apartheid system is dismantled completely.

In world events, Communists take control of China and begin to try to spread through the far east. Their primary adversaries become the Russians (who jointly occupy Japan with the US and California).

(more to come!)

[izixs]

1960s - Russia develops their own nuclear bomb. Relations go south between the US and Russia over what to do with Japan and the growing Chinese empire. Spain pushes forth the idea of a United Nations and by decades end it has the membership of most of the planet. Spain divides up France and lets it go. The new french countries along with Quebec and some other French speaking areas form the French league. Israel is formed after a massive jewish rebellion in the nation of Palestine. In the end the country is divided between the two with joint control over select areas. The conflict doesn't go much further then this and in the long run both nations become close allies.

In the US, Republicans come back to power on a strong civil rights platform. Relations cool between the US and the Confederacy (which despite slavery being banned, its exactly friendly to non-white people) and a massive migration begins to move blacks to the US. Republican congresses begin to admit England states. A loose alliance of parties from the new states formed called the English Coalition.

1970s - Russian imperialist parties take control and start push for war with China. Wishing to avoid war, the US begins to back China and push Russian and the US towards a cold war of sorts. Communism spreads to India. The new nation of Pakistan sides with Russia in the tensions.

Republicans maintain control of the presidency of the US but congress is divided between Progressive, Republican and English parties. An economic down turn leads to Labor (pro-US, pro-unions, liberal social policy, ect) being the dominate member of the English parties.

1980s - First non-'American' president is elected from Australia under the English Party ballot line (member of the Australian conservatives). Kind of parallel to Reagan except not as well liked. Pushes through congress new election rules that allow for preference voting (vote for everyone you like on the ballot) and presidential run off elections (congress was getting to much in the habit of deciding things).

Iranian-Pakistani war begins and acts as a proxy between Russia and the US with the winner being whom ever gets to dominate the middle east. US backs the Republic of Iran. The tensions result in a hard anti-Russia witch hunt near decades end.

1990s - Massive social upheavals strike the Confederacy and it enters a civil war between traditionalists (small c confederate leaning) and nationalists (federalist leaning). The US intervenes and eventually leads to a pace treaty between the two factions and a rewriting of the Confederate constitution. The Republicans were in charge in the US at this time and its seen as a big success. After the end of the civil war the economy booms.

The Iranian-Pakistani war ends in a stalemate. Their old mutual boarder roughly the same as before but with Pakistan controlling most of Afghanistan. Cold war continues. China becomes close ally of the US. Japan is finally granted full independence.

2000s - The French League is renamed the Free Nations League and begins to admit non-french speaking nations. Dictatorships are overthrown in a number of countries in 2005 via local populist movements. Russia moves more and more towards absolutist rule as the Russian National Party outlaws all other parties once and for all.

US politics becomes more and more dominated by the English Parties, but with their success they become more and more divided by ideology instead of by group identity. The coalition officially ends in 2006 with most the English Parties siding with either the Republicans (socially moderate, economically left, and moderately federalist) and the Progressives (socially liberal, economically moderate, very federalist).

The Confederacy is ever more strongly linked with the US proper but trends socially conservative overall. The western free states are a grab bag from the communist government of California to the fundamentalist state of Utah.

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How's that for a sketch? Sorry if its a little to US centric but tis my perspective. And besides, the US was thinking about invading Canada in the 30s. If they're allied with a fascist england there's more motivation for such!