The Gay Empire State

[Landslide Lyndon]

What a wuss. Seems to me that Cuomo must remind him that if the senate map goes to the courts then he can kiss his leadership goodbye.

[Lief 🗽]

Wait, is Cuomo trading gay marriage for the chance to gerrymander the State Senate? I love the gays as much as anyone, but that sounds like a bad idea.

[Smash255]

Wait, is Cuomo trading gay marriage for the chance to gerrymander the State Senate? I love the gays as much as anyone, but that sounds like a bad idea.

Don't think so, I think PX is just saying Cuomo should use forcing any maps to go to the courts as leverage. 

Cuomo has already said he will veto any gerrymandered maps, but something that Cuomo might be willing to go for is still likely not going to be as bad for the GOP as a court drawn map.

[Badger]

Wait, is Cuomo trading gay marriage for the chance to gerrymander the State Senate? I love the gays as much as anyone, but that sounds like a bad idea.

Yeah, especially because once the Senate is gerrymandered (or even the currnet GOP gerrymander simply undone), gay marriage quickly follows anyway. Not to mention it allows the artificially pumped up GOP numbers in that chamber to slow or stop everything else on Cuomo's agenda for the rest of the decade.

[Badger]

Super Bowl hero warns of 'anarchy' if NY approves gay marriage


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/16/new.york.gay.marriage.tyree/

Former New York Giants receiver David Tyree's celebrated catch in the closing seconds of Super Bowl XLII was pivotal to his team's victory. Now out of football, he is trying to claim a last-minute win over another foe -- same-sex marriage.

Strahan > Tyree

Sean Avery > Tyree

OK, different sports I know, but still....

[Landslide Lyndon]

Wait, is Cuomo trading gay marriage for the chance to gerrymander the State Senate? I love the gays as much as anyone, but that sounds like a bad idea.

Yeah, especially because once the Senate is gerrymandered (or even the currnet GOP gerrymander simply undone), gay marriage quickly follows anyway. Not to mention it allows the artificially pumped up GOP numbers in that chamber to slow or stop everything else on Cuomo's agenda for the rest of the decade.

Exactly. Either Skelos stops playing games and lets the bill pass or Cuomo vetoes his map and the Republicans lose their majority after being forced to run in court-drawn, un-gerrymandered districts, and the all-Dem legislature passes the bill.

[Badger]

Wait, is Cuomo trading gay marriage for the chance to gerrymander the State Senate? I love the gays as much as anyone, but that sounds like a bad idea.

Yeah, especially because once the Senate is gerrymandered (or even the currnet GOP gerrymander simply undone), gay marriage quickly follows anyway. Not to mention it allows the artificially pumped up GOP numbers in that chamber to slow or stop everything else on Cuomo's agenda for the rest of the decade.

Exactly. Either Skelos stops playing games and lets the bill pass or Cuomo vetoes his map and the Republicans lose their majority after being forced to run in court-drawn, un-gerrymandered districts, and the all-Dem legislature passes the bill.

So why play ball with Skelos at all? Why not play hardball and (at most) throw the GOP a bone in redistricting with a slightly more favorable than court drawn map agreement in exchange for getting gay marriage passed this term? I understand Cuomo is under pressure from gay supporters and donors, but it seems like he's holding most the cards here and could likely afford the relatively minor fallout from saying "wait until a Democratic Senate takes office in 2013". Especially after he signs a gay marriage bill by that summer, all will be forgiven.

I seriously hope Cuomo doesn't give away the store just to get gay marriage two years earlier.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Wait, is Cuomo trading gay marriage for the chance to gerrymander the State Senate? I love the gays as much as anyone, but that sounds like a bad idea.

Yeah, especially because once the Senate is gerrymandered (or even the currnet GOP gerrymander simply undone), gay marriage quickly follows anyway. Not to mention it allows the artificially pumped up GOP numbers in that chamber to slow or stop everything else on Cuomo's agenda for the rest of the decade.

Exactly. Either Skelos stops playing games and lets the bill pass or Cuomo vetoes his map and the Republicans lose their majority after being forced to run in court-drawn, un-gerrymandered districts, and the all-Dem legislature passes the bill.

So why play ball with Skelos at all? Why not play hardball and (at most) throw the GOP a bone in redistricting with a slightly more favorable than court drawn map agreement in exchange for getting gay marriage passed this term? I understand Cuomo is under pressure from gay supporters and donors, but it seems like he's holding most the cards here and could likely afford the relatively minor fallout from saying "wait until a Democratic Senate takes office in 2013". Especially after he signs a gay marriage bill by that summer, all will be forgiven.

I seriously hope Cuomo doesn't give away the store just to get gay marriage two years earlier.

Hey, I agree with you. But our Newyorkers probably know better than me. I think that they have said that Cuomo (and some Democratic legislators) actually prefer a Republican-controlled senate for their own reason.

[Holmes]

Hm. About 90% sure this isn't even gonna get to the floor now.

[Lunar]

Hm. About 90% sure this isn't even gonna get to the floor now.

I've heard that LGBT advocating insiders in Albany are much more optimistic than the present scenario would indicate from a distance

[Holmes]

Hm. About 90% sure this isn't even gonna get to the floor now.

I've heard that LGBT advocating insiders in Albany are much more optimistic than the present scenario would indicate from a distance

Mmhmm, well there have been a lot of cases that have seemed like a done deal, or close to one, and it only takes one little thing to crumble all down. And those were in Democratic legislatures.

[Lunar]

WTF?

http://twitter.com/#!/ball4ny/status/81912792394899456

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Twitter has never provided any benefit for a politician and tons of mishaps. Any smart politician should simply never ever use Twitter. Actually replace "politician" with "person"...

[Marokai Backbeat]

WTF?

http://twitter.com/#!/ball4ny/status/81912792394899456

"Let's open up discussion!

How should I vote?"

Love it.

[Holmes]

Twitter has never provided any benefit for a politician and tons of mishaps. Any smart politician should simply never ever use Twitter. Actually replace "politician" with "person"...

You just don't know where to look on Twitter. It's great, especially if you love campaigns. You can often find volunteers or people on the inside of a campaign give behind the scenes details on Twitter that you could only hear from their own mouths.

[JohnnyLongtorso]

Twitter has never provided any benefit for a politician and tons of mishaps. Any smart politician should simply never ever use Twitter. Actually replace "politician" with "person"...

Well, it is Greg Ball...

[Lunar]

It actually started to make more sense the more I thought about it -- simply because it lets him broadcast something that seems far more transparent than all of the intense closed door meetings he's been involved in lately.  He wants whatever his decision will be to seem like it's the result of an open thinking process.

[Lunar]

It's actually a positive sign for gay marriage now that I think about it.  It shows that he may be thinking about the Yes/No vote more than the bill being shelved and no vote happening at all.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

WTF?

http://twitter.com/#!/ball4ny/status/81912792394899456

Why WTF?  Greg Ball is in his 30s - very much on the young side for the NYS Senate, which is chock full of seniors.  He's also on the fence and fairly active on Twitter.  It makes sense for him to ask for input on how to vote.

Of those on the fence, he seems the most concerned about religious exemptions.  Given the old-school Catholic makeup of a lot of his district, that position makes a lot of sense, and is something that the bill needs to do a lot more of to obtain passage.  Republicans simply aren't going to vote for a bill that potentially forces Catholic adoption services to place children in married gay households or Knights of Columbus halls to host gay marriage receptions.

LOL. Isn't Cuomo Catholic?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

In case anyone wondered, the tweet responses are something like 200-0 for gay marriage.

[Brittain33]

How does marriage change the rules for adoption? One would think whether state law requiring groups taking state funds for adoption to not discriminate against gays would not be directly linked to marriage law. Gays are adopting *now*. This is an excuse not to hold a vote, not a genuine touchpoint for this issue, and yes, I'm familiar with what CC did in MA and IL. Note that IL doesn't have gay marriage.

[Brittain33]

Re: Knights of Columbus, are they currently required under state law (I know they aren't under federal law) to rent out for a gay commitment ceremony? If not, how would legalizing gay marriage change that.

It certainly appears that the demands by conservatives are either vacuous or intending to roll back gay rights in areas unrelated to marriage. In no case are they mitigating a change enacted by this law.

[Holmes]

It certainly appears that the demands by conservatives are either vacuous or intending to roll back gay rights in areas unrelated to marriage. In no case are they mitigating a change enacted by this law.

This was a strategy used in Maine in 2009. Maine had already passed a law (and approved by voters) in 2005 that protected gay people in employment, housing, public accommodations, etc. But opponents of the same-sex marriage bill said that if same-sex couples could get married, they would be able to rent a house from an anti-gay landlord, or send their children to Catholic schools. *gasp* Reality is scary.

It's actually a positive sign for gay marriage now that I think about it.  It shows that he may be thinking about the Yes/No vote more than the bill being shelved and no vote happening at all.

This is what I thought too when I read it. Obviously he knows more than us since he's on the inside, so if he's seriously considering it this weekend, and sharing it in public, it might be a sign that it's likely it might go to a vote after all. Or maybe I'm reading between the lines too much?

[Holmes]

How does marriage change the rules for adoption? One would think whether state law requiring groups taking state funds for adoption to not discriminate against gays would not be directly linked to marriage law. Gays are adopting *now*. This is an excuse not to hold a vote, not a genuine touchpoint for this issue, and yes, I'm familiar with what CC did in MA and IL. Note that IL doesn't have gay marriage.

Doesn't the gay rights lobby always tell us that gays need marriage, not civil unions, because mere civil unions aren't good enough to confer the 1,200 "rights" that married people otherwise have?

No, because it's the word that grants the respect and dignity that the government, not some random churches, should otherwise give the couples.

[Brittain33]

cinyc, a thought experiment. Does a law permitting women to walk on public streets with their lower arms or legs uncovered infringe on the religious liberty of orthodox Jews who feel that this is immodest?

I want you to keep that in mind when you think about how same-sex marriage affects other people's religious freedom. It's one thing to talk about not requiring a Catholic church to marry a same-sex couple, which, as I always point out when this comes up, is equivalent to the right Catholic priests enjoy now not to be compelled to marry people who aren't Catholic. It's another if your affinity for conservatism means you define religious freedom on this issue as the right for some people to wish I didn't exist and didn't have equal rights to function in the U.S., and as a compromise they have a right to never see me or deal with me and pretend that this is central element of their religion and I have to bend my life to respect that. Sorry, no deal. That's not religious freedom. Religious freedom governs religion and how it intersects with the government, and no extreme case mentioned has anything to do with gay marriage.