America 2011

[frihetsivrare]

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/america-2011

[Franzl]

The article on the front page (too lazy to look any further) actually makes some legitimate points.

[Person Man]

Ummm...it seems to be just hot air though. We know that America's sovreignty and welfare are being threatened by all-consuming large private estates, but what do we do? Nothing. About half the people who complain about this problem ( white working class singles making less than $4000 a month or white working class families making less than $7000 a month) will always vote for the same people who are causing the problem (Reagan Republicans) because they are so worried about "killing babies"(abortion) or illegally present non-Whites.

 Perhaps its time for America's people to accept personal responsibility for America's unsustainable wealth consoladation and cultural stagnation. We have been taught that individuals should accept responsibility if they end up not being able to have enough money to live or buying what they want or ending up in jail but we never talk about every person taking joint and several responsibility for everyone's joint and several problems.

Maybe I am getting back to the entire "bitter" comment but beyond that there's one thing we must do- accept the fact that we all brought this on each other. There are two things we can do. Stop worrying about it and accept it as the price we pay in our losing battle in keeping America "pure" or accept the fact that the world has all kinds of people in it and that they have rights and we have rights...and our ability to choose how we want to live and to have enough money to live is based on the right of other people's lifestyle choices as well.

[courts]

Ummm...it seems to be just hot air though. We know that America's sovreignty and welfare are being threatened by all-consuming large private estates, but what do we do? Nothing. About half the people who complain about this problem ( white working class singles making less than $4000 a month or white working class families making less than $7000 a month) will always vote for the same people who are causing the problem (Reagan Republicans) because they are so worried about "killing babies"(abortion) or illegally present non-Whites.

I'm sure the Democrats voting for policies like literally handing over money to the very richest <1% had nothing to do with it. Or the fact that my phonebook is shorter than the US tax code or total regulatory burden in my state alone.

[Person Man]

....and whose idea was it to bribe big business into being good with massive tax credits? Or perhaps you think that Democrats aren't going far enough? Any one of these answers would be correct. ...or maybe America's sovreignty is so comprimised by large private estates that no one can govern without their consent?

[courts]

....and whose idea was it to bribe big business into being good with massive tax credits? Or perhaps you think that Democrats aren't going far enough? Any one of these answers would be correct. ...or maybe America's sovreignty is so comprimised by large private estates that no one can govern without their consent?

Well I'm not exactly disputing that the biggest losers run the show.

[specific_name]

Website looks like a bunch of NWO conspiracy junk. You can usually recognize these people because they sell water filters, gold and silver coins and DIY bunker kits (the latter may only be for the most ambitious/insane).

This sort of panic has happened before, like in the 70's, when Americans realized that they weren't invincible for just a second. When the absurd idealism that is the "dream" comes crashing into the wall of reality at 120mph. No Empire lasts forever, the British version of what we have today didn't either and the UK still exists. The American dollar may not remain the world's reserve currency, but that does not mean there will be no renewal after the fall.

[Person Man]

....and whose idea was it to bribe big business into being good with massive tax credits? Or perhaps you think that Democrats aren't going far enough? Any one of these answers would be correct. ...or maybe America's sovreignty is so comprimised by large private estates that no one can govern without their consent?

Well I'm not exactly disputing that the biggest losers run the show.

I don't know how to respond to this. What exactly does that relate to? ...and this is the exact mentality that causes us to be both able to have these and problems...and get this...to actually complain about them.

Website looks like a bunch of NWO conspiracy junk. You can usually recognize these people because they sell water filters, gold and silver coins and DIY bunker kits (the latter may only be for the most ambitious/insane).

This sort of panic has happened before, like in the 70's, when Americans realized that they weren't invincible for just a second. When the absurd idealism that is the "dream" comes crashing into the wall of reality at 120mph. No Empire lasts forever, the British version of what we have today didn't either and the UK still exists. The American dollar may not remain the world's reserve currency, but that does not mean there will be no renewal after the fall.

This response is what I am talking about- accepting that we made our bed, everyone else makes their bed and that we will be succesful again if we are patient, work hard and take responsibility for what has happened.

China has probably failed and rose to immenence many times in the history of the world. What makes anyone think that the United States will be any different? The beauty about being an American is that its really more about being an adherent to a  secular religion than a member of  an ethno-sectarian  group or nationality. jmfcst is always talking about Christianity making the human need for religion obsolete. Why can't America be about making the human need for national belonging obsolete?

[courts]

....and whose idea was it to bribe big business into being good with massive tax credits? Or perhaps you think that Democrats aren't going far enough? Any one of these answers would be correct. ...or maybe America's sovreignty is so comprimised by large private estates that no one can govern without their consent?

Well I'm not exactly disputing that the biggest losers run the show.

I don't know how to respond to this. What exactly does that relate to? ...and this is the exact mentality that causes us to be both able to have these and problems...and get this...to actually complain about them.

By now the american government (or just 'america' as a whole for that matter) is such a morass that realistically nothing can change, until the system collapses under its own weight. It goes beyond even simply 'the rich own everything,' although that's true. Look at the US tax code, or statutes, or full national security budget (oh wait you can't for the latter, not that the other two are any easier to really pick apart). It's impenetrable, nobody fully grasps any of it anymore yet the so called leaders keep collecting their various checks and passing new 'laws' as if it matters or has worked out so well for us.  Rules are applied selectively and to the unprivileged few, and without any subtlety now (go ahead, google some of the healthcare waivers out there or new accounting rules). Our regulators down at the SEC are so bored and useless they literally jerk off in their offices.

And how many people think to ask why? It's not even just the leaders it's our whole mentality. This 'exceptionalist,' 'positive thinking' bullsh**t that blinds us to the obvious.. That in category after category, we're we're far from the greatest country on earth all around. That sometimes, it's not all going to be okay. That not everything has a political solution. At least not a neatly packaged one involving a house vote or just 'voting out' your incumbent. And what can be done besides that, honestly? Protesting? That doesn't fucking work (except maybe bank runs). Writing in Ron Paul or Kucinich or whatever? That would feel nice I admit, but just symbolic at the end of the day. We're way past the point of no return. Any sane person at this point should be able to see that regardless of what they think 'should' or 'could' be done when all of this reaches its final, logical conclusion.

[courts]

And it's not like this is some new thing. Yes some of it is particularly brazen but people were ignoring the constitution and selectively applying it when they suited them right from the beginning. Ask the French or native americans or socialists or japanese. The constitution has always been an abstract at best, if anything I'm starting to wonder if the anti-federalists had it right (or monarchists when I'm particularly depressed, but that's another debate).

[Person Man]

So, Ghost. What should we do about it? You may be right. What can we really do about it? Do we hope that our nation can continue to hold out or do we hope that the end may come swiftly so that there may be a new hope in the future? ...and if there is no solution, why are we so angry?

There was a guy I knew. He was a total douche. I stopped talking to him when he bought a girl for drugs and I accused him of raping her.  He was a disgraced Midwestern banker who owed seven figures to the IRS, was a salesman and was EXTREMELY horny. He would probably give opebo a run for his money. However, one thing he said and another agreed made me think about my life and the life of others. When people would complain in front of him about the government, society or how they have failed in life, he would ask "why are you so angry when you didn't do anything to stop what has happened? Look at my life. I've given up on being perfect and I know I failed in life because I was weak and lazy when I should have picked a better woman to marry, had not cheated on her or on my taxes and been a better banker....and you are angry because of your failures? Who made you weak? You have no one blame but yourself. You must do something about your problems or accept them and your weakness."

His capability for self-responsibility is far dwarfed by his unusually high appreciation for it. Instead of complaining about America's incompetence, should we do something about it and if what is done cannot be changed, should we accept our failure and learn to live with what we have?

It appears that websites like these offer no solution to our straits. In fact, no more than populists using the consequences of excessive right-of-center neo-liberal policies as a soap box for bashing left-of-center economic policies and politicians that could have prevented the complained about consequences in the first place. i.e. "Deregulation caused the recession and we should cut taxes on the rich and ban unions so that we can have a strong recovery".  I got in a debate with a Mormon boy (we don't have wives, kids or decent, stable, jobs outside of our families) about three years older than me from Arizona. He is a tenant of mine and a teapartyer. I usually do more listening than talking in most debates outside of the net. I eventually openned up and this is how the conversation ended-

Me: Well, you know, you guys don't have any policies that are different than ones that got us into the recession in the first place. You actually expect to win?
Him: We kicked your ass last year and people hate your boy. Prepare to be trounced again next year.
Me: ...how are you going to sell it?
Him: In all honesty, we don't really know. We are just going to count on the anger of the median voter.
Me: Well, so you are probably open to losing in '14 and '16.
Him: I guess so...
Me: Backlash after backlash...not you nor I have the solution.
Him: Pretty much. I just know were gonna kick your ass in '12.
Me: And then we are going to kick your ass..
Him: Well, you're not. Because guess what?
Me: What?
Him: The world ends six weeks after the election...
Me: Ha...I guess your guy will never actually be president...
Him: That's whole new can of worms. All I know is that I am hungover and need to rest. Have a job interview in the morning.
Me: Oh alright. Great talking to ya.

So, with everyone claiming they are not the messiah and everyone opened to the possibility that we are screwed. Should we just be happy with what we have and just debate whether or not we should or are in fact going to see the end of our American dynasty?

[courts]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

Maybe I should have just saved time earlier and copy pasted that. Solutions? I don't know, how do you shake people out of that? How do you handle a government that can break into your home whenever it feels like now or worse and just ignores you when you complain? I brought up forms of economic protest earlier that might have more impact but nobody has the balls or motivation for things like general strikes, mass mortgage walk outs, or anything like that. Maybe in Ireland, France or Greece but certainly not here. At least not yet.

[Person Man]

Well, this is a novel peice to the puzzle.

Why are things are the way things are?

Because they got that way.

Why did it get this way?

Because people didn't think it could get this way until it was too late.

It's like becoming the next fat person. At first its a few pounds because you pigged out and then you pigged out againt a few days later. Eventually, you get used to pigging and then you're a pig!

[opebo]

Well, this is a novel peice to the puzzle.

Why are things are the way things are?

Because they got that way.

Why did it get this way?

Because people didn't think it could get this way until it was too late.

Um, no things got this way because of a careful plan by the owning class to destroy everyone else.

[Person Man]

What if they invited you to their giant banquet on top of Manhattan or in the hills of Sodoma (Sonoma) and gave you a seat at their Dom Perigon, Perrier Jiolet, salad, curly fry or make-your-own-sundae trough?

Will you be like, while feedings your face, "Oh this stuff tastes great! If you other idiots would stop spinning your wheels by being dumb or lazy, we would probably get you a spare chair, too!"

[opebo]

What if they invited you to their giant banquet on top of Manhattan or in the hills of Sodoma (Sonoma) and gave you a seat at their Dom Perigon, Perrier Jiolet, salad, curly fry or make-your-own-sundae trough?

Will you be like, while feedings your face, "Oh this stuff tastes great! If you other idiots would stop spinning your wheels by being dumb or lazy, we would probably get you a spare chair, too!"

Are you addressing me?

[courts]

Well, this is a novel peice to the puzzle.

Why are things are the way things are?

Because they got that way.

Why did it get this way?

Because people didn't think it could get this way until it was too late.

Um, no things got this way because of a careful plan by the owning class to destroy everyone else.

[Person Man]

What if they invited you to their giant banquet on top of Manhattan or in the hills of Sodoma (Sonoma) and gave you a seat at their Dom Perigon, Perrier Jiolet, salad, curly fry or make-your-own-sundae trough?

Will you be like, while feedings your face, "Oh this stuff tastes great! If you other idiots would stop spinning your wheels by being dumb or lazy, we would probably get you a spare chair, too!"

Are you addressing me?

Yes. What would happen if you recieved the economic franchise?

[Del Tachi]

What the first few paragraphs of the article on the homepage are talking about is a term known to human geographers as "placelessness" and it is prevelent in all of the industrial world, not just the United States.  Basically, a region is robbed of its geographic uniqueness and becomes, more or less, like any other place.   

Truth be told, the rise of an easily accessible global communication system (mail, telephone, Internet) has as much to do with placelessness as "corporations" do. 

[Person Man]

Great. Now when someone goes off about how every other place in the world that they have been is like every other one, I will bring up the word "placelessness". Personally, I don't think things are the same or as different from the places I have been. Its weird to see apple trees growing in the middle of a sidewalk in a big city, or to have to pay to use a public toilet or to see a mall's anchor be a grocery store or water park but people still live in the same type of houses and watch the same type of TV.