Swiss General Elections 2011 (Elections to the Federal Council)

[ZuWo]

Very interesting link, thank you ZuWo.

Anyways, even if the SVP loses a couple of percentage points, most of this will be due to BDP's splinter, so it's nothing like an actual decline...

You're welcome. I appreciate your and bbf's interesting comments and data on the French elections, too.

Well, the BDP is really quite different from the SVP. Yes, it was originally a splinter group of the SVP but it is much more centrist than the SVP, so I don't think the two parties vie for the same voter groups. In fact, recent analysis of voter behaviour and results of recent cantonal elections have shown that the newly-formed BDP mainly draws its voters from the FDP, CVP or the pool of non-voters.
Broadly speaking it can be said that those who vote BDP would hardly consider voting SVP, and those who are dissatisfied with the SVP will vote for more extreme right-wing parties or not vote anymore at all. But still, the formation of the BDP surely hasn't helped the SVP. That's right.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, the BDP is really quite different from the SVP. Yes, it was originally a splinter group of the SVP but it is much more centrist than the SVP, so I don't think the two parties vie for the same voter groups. In fact, recent analysis of voter behaviour and results of recent cantonal elections have shown that the newly-formed BDP mainly draws its voters from the FDP, CVP or the pool of non-voters.
Broadly speaking it can be said that those who vote BDP would hardly consider voting SVP, and those who are dissatisfied with the SVP will vote for more extreme right-wing parties or not vote anymore at all. But still, the formation of the BDP surely hasn't helped the SVP. That's right.

Really ? That's quite surprising, but in some way it explains why the BDP isn't having much electoral success. If it had successfully taken moderate SVP voters it could probably have achieved more than 3%.

[Tender Branson]

The SVP is gearing up the ad campaign:

[Tender Branson]

I actually had to look up what "Schwinger-Freunde" are. I thought they are members of a swinger-club, but in fact it has to do with wrestling.

[minionofmidas]

The SVP is exactly like the NPD, at least you'd think so from their campaigns. Language, design etc.
I'll never get entirely why it's quite so successful with that approach (sure, being a traditional government party must help. And certain peculiarities about the country, too. But still...)

[ZuWo]

The SVP is exactly like the NPD, at least you'd think so from their campaigns. Language, design etc.
I'll never get entirely why it's quite so successful with that approach (sure, being a traditional government party must help. And certain peculiarities about the country, too. But still...)

The main difference between the SVP and the NPD is the Nazi question. The SVP has never been a party of open or closet Nazis or a party which quietly or publicly praises Nazism. That's what makes the SVP a clearly democratic party, while I can't regard the NPD as such.

[minionofmidas]

That's setting the bar for "clearly democratic party" ridiculously low.
But yeah, obviously the SVP doesn't have the NPD's ridiculous baggage of antisemitism and a need to relativize NS crimes. Then again, these things don't feature in NPD campaign lit.

[ZuWo]

That's setting the bar for "clearly democratic party" ridiculously low.
But yeah, obviously the SVP doesn't have the NPD's ridiculous baggage of antisemitism and a need to relativize NS crimes. Then again, these things don't feature in NPD campaign lit.

Well, I should have said that it is one of many criteria which makes the SVP a democratic party, but certainly an important one when you compare the SVP to the NPD. An important reason why the SVP can be regarded as a democratic party is their status as a traditional Swiss party, whose elected officials cooperate in a very normal way with people from other parties, or their political struggle for an extension of direct democracy. This even goes so far that the SVP wants the members of the Federal Council to be elected directly by the people, even though that would probably work against the party's favour since SVP candidates often lose in majority elections.

[minionofmidas]

Well, I should have said that it is one of many criteria which makes the SVP a democratic party, but certainly an important one when you compare the SVP to the NPD.

Yeah well, once a party starts being compared with that bunch... Even though the original comparison was really about their advertisement rhetoric, I know they're not really alike. Then again, a mainstream party that stoops that low is certainly more dangerous than the NPD.

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Okay, this is interesting. That's two things I did not know.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No matter how well established the SVP is, its horrendous xenophobic rhetoric makes it unworthy to be called "democratic". Being used to something doesn't make it all right.

[Franzl]

No matter how well established the SVP is, its horrendous xenophobic rhetoric makes it unworthy to be called "democratic". Being used to something doesn't make it all right.

I wouldn't vote for them...but being xenophobic isn't the same thing as anti-democratic.....necessarily.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No matter how well established the SVP is, its horrendous xenophobic rhetoric makes it unworthy to be called "democratic". Being used to something doesn't make it all right.

I wouldn't vote for them...but being xenophobic isn't the same thing as anti-democratic.....necessarily.

To me, the core values democracy is based upon imply the rejection of any form of xenophobia. And it's not a case if, in Europe, the most xenophobic ideologies were also particularly prone to establishing dictatorships.

[ZuWo]

I don't regard the SVP as a xenophobic party. The party's main goal when it comes to policy on foreigners is, roughly, the reduction of the number of immigrants, a more severe punishment of foreign criminals and/or their expulsion. Given that more than 20% of the Swiss populace are foreigners, and foreigners account for more than the half of crimes committed in the country, these views are completely justifiable in my opinion.

Now the party's rhetoric is a different matter. I don't agree with the style of their campaigns but if I were a Swiss leftist (and they are the ones who often blame the SVP for poisoning the political climate in the country) I would be careful about criticising the SVP for that. Consider, for example, the following ads by the Social Democrats:










I don't see what's so much better about this kind of rhetoric. If we apply the same criteria to the Social Democrats, does this rhetoric also make them "undemocratic"?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ah, they hate foreigners, but they aren't xenophobes. Apparently there's a difference.

As for the other thing, well, no. Merely a little amateurish.

[ZuWo]

Ah, they hate foreigners, but they aren't xenophobes. Apparently there's a difference.

As for the other thing, well, no. Merely a little amateurish.

Where do you see a general "hate" for foreigners if one of the party's goal was to punish criminal foreigners more severely? There's a difference between attempting to disparage all foreigners (which the SVP doesn't do) or advocating for more severe punishments for those foreigners who are criminal. And note, the SVP has supported more severe punishments for all criminals in the past, Swiss and foreigners alike.

Regarding the ads by the Social Democrats: It is very well possible to construe ads like these



as a general "hate" towards rich people (these guys are managers of big Swiss companies) and claim that the Social Democrats disparage the rich minority in Switzerland, if you like to argue in this way. People on the left really have to be careful not to apply double standards to different parties, and call tasteless ads of a rightist party "hateful" or "horrendous" and very similar ads by leftist parties merely "amateurish".

[ZuWo]

With less than two months to go, the election campaign is on its its last stretch.

These are the campaign slogans of the four major parties:

SVP



"Swiss people vote SVP"

SP



"For everyone, not for a few"

FDP



"Out of love for Switzerland"

CVP



"Success. Switzerland. CVP"

[Antonio the Sixth]

SVP : ...while evil foreigners and fake Swisses vote for that other parties.

SPS : Banal.

FDP : Banal.

CVP : Lulz. Utterly meaningless, love it. If my German isn't too bad, the sentence at the bottom says "no Switzerland without us"... Sounds pretty desperate.

[Franzl]

Your translation is correct

[ZuWo]

SVP : ...while evil foreigners and fake Swisses vote for that other parties.

SPS : Banal.

FDP : Banal.

CVP : Lulz. Utterly meaningless, love it. If my German isn't too bad, the sentence at the bottom says "no Switzerland without us"... Sounds pretty desperate.

You're right. These campaign slogans (all of them) really aren't too creative or original. But in their awkwardness lies a lot of satirical potential and charm.

[minionofmidas]

Lulz. Utterly meaningless, love it.

Like Swiss elections between the 50s and 2000s?

[Insula Dei]

The CVP poster is a thing of beauty.

[ZuWo]

Yesterday, Micheline Calmy-Rey, Federal Councillor from Geneva and member of the SP, declared that she would not seek reelection in December. She has served in the Federal Council for 9 years and has been foreign minister during her period of office.

This will creat a couple of interesting scenarios for the next elections of the Federal Council:

Scenario 1: The SP fields an own candidate (that's pretty obivous), denies the SVP a second seat in the Federal Council, supports Widmer-Schlumpf (BDP) and the candidates from the other parties. If the SVP fails to get a second candidate elected, the second seat of the SP is in danger as it will be attacked by the SVP.

Scenario 2: The SP fields an own candidate, supports the SVP's claim to a second seat for the sake of political stability and helps to reelect the candidates from the other parties. As a result, Widmer Schlumpf (BDP) will lose her seat in favour of the SVP's candidate.

There are other possible scenarios, but I think these two options are the most realistic ones. The SVP is likely to run with Jean-François Rime, member of the National Council from Fribourg.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I don't regard the SVP as a xenophobic party.

Okay, give me your best argument
 

The party's main goal when it comes to policy on foreigners is, roughly, the reduction of the number of immigrants, a more severe punishment of foreign criminals and/or their expulsion.

Uh. If I added them fancy dictionary symbols, this could be a textbook definition of Xenophobia.

Given that more than 20% of the Swiss populace are foreigners, and foreigners account for more than the half of crimes committed in the country, these views are completely justifiable in my opinion.

Justifiable does not equal non-xenophobic.

[ZuWo]

A new poll conducted by gfs.bern shows the following results:

SVP 28%
SP 20.5%
FDP 15.6%
CVP 14.5%
Greens 9.5%
Green Liberals 4.5%
BDP 3.1%

According to these figures, the SVP, SP, CVP and Greens would receive a similar percentage of votes as in the last election, while the FDP would lose and the Green Liberals would gain votes.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/standard/SP-knackt-die-20ProzentMarke/story/26375285

[ZuWo]

The most recent poll by the polling company Isopublic shows the following numbers:

SVP 28.2%
SP 20.3%
FDP 15.7%
CVP 14.2%
Green Party 9.8%
Green-Liberal Party 5.2%
BDP 3.2%

Pretty much in line with previous polls.

http://www.bielertagblatt.ch/News/Schweiz/216429