When the President and Vice President die....
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  When the President and Vice President die....
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Author Topic: When the President and Vice President die....  (Read 8289 times)
George W. Bush
eversole_Adam
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« on: November 30, 2004, 07:45:15 PM »

Dosent the Secratary of State take over? Im not shure, Who does take the Job of President?
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J.R. Brown
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2004, 07:55:02 PM »

I think it's the Speaker of the House who takes over if the President and VP both die.
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DaleC76
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2004, 08:06:31 PM »
« Edited: November 30, 2004, 09:23:30 PM by DaleC76 »

Here's the line of succession:

President
Vice President
Speaker of the House of Representatives
President Pro Tempore of the Senate
Secretary of State
Secretary of the Treasury
Secretary of Defense
Attorney General
Secretary of the Interior
Secretary of Agriculture
Secretary of Commerce
Secretary of Labor
Secretary of Health and Human Services
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Secretary of Transportation
Secretary of Energy
Secretary of Education
Secretary of Veterans Affairs
Secretary of Homeland Security (Not yet official)
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J. J.
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2004, 08:16:15 PM »

In addition, there was a bill to move the Secretary of Homeland Security to #8, just after the Attorney General.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2004, 09:01:15 PM »

You need to strike the Secretary of Homeland Security from the list.  The list is given by 3 USC 19 and he's not there. While going by the traditional ordering, he would be placed last, the law gives an explict list of the Cabinet secretaries that can succeed the President.  It could be that Homeland Security isn't on the list because of the desire of some to place it higher on the list than the traditional order of when the department was created would dicatate.  It might be because some view the Dept. of Homeland Security as being akin to the Departments of the Army, Navy, and Air Force which are not on the list.  However, whatever the reason, the Secretary of Homeland Security is not on the list.
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DaleC76
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2004, 09:22:59 PM »

^^ Fixed.
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PBrunsel
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2004, 11:10:11 PM »

"I'm in charge now!"
-Secretary of State Alexander Haige after hearing President Reagan was shot.
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J. J.
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2004, 12:18:48 AM »

My understanding is that Homeland Security has been placed on the list.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2004, 12:50:07 AM »

Well it's not in 3 USC 19 which gives the line of succession and I double checked on the Thomas website before I posted to make certain that there hadn't been a law passed in the 108th Congress which amends that section of the US Code. A further check of Thomas shows that S. 148 would indeed place the Secretary into the line of succession after the Attorney General and has passed the Senate but has been stuck in the House Judiciary Committee since July of last year.
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Erc
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2004, 02:01:32 AM »

Of course, Hastert would have to resign his seat.  Which he may not want to do [if it's just to become Acting...or if he doesn't want to be President at all.]

If both Hastert and Stevens defer, it could very well be Condi (upon nomination)
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qwerty
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2004, 03:39:57 AM »

The Speaker of the House could either act as President while Speaker, or resign the House to become President.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2004, 12:08:50 PM »

Even if it is only to be Acting President, the Speaker or the President pro tem would have to resign their Congressional position to assume the authority of the executive under current law.  There is nothing that couldn't cause the law to be changed, and I wish they would to take the PPT and the Speaker out of the line of succession.
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Jake
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2004, 05:32:47 PM »

Does anyone know who takes over after the cabinet, if anyone?
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Dave from Michigan
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2004, 10:57:43 PM »

Does anyone know who takes over after the cabinet, if anyone?

I think if everyone died that is in the line of sucesion, if there were 218 membes of the house of representatives left (I think you need a majority) they would elect a new speaker and they would be president.  But if there wasn't 218 members left you would have to wait for the special elections to take place to replace the dead members, Although you wouldn't have to wait for the house elections because the Senate could pick a new President Pro Tempore who would be next in line after the speaker, and even if the senate lost half of it's members the governors of the states pick new ones so you could most likely have a new senate in a few days if necessary.  So by leaving the Senate in the line of succession someone could aways replace the president.  Again I'm not sure if this is right.
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J. J.
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2004, 11:40:42 PM »

You wouldn't need a majority of the entire possible members, just a majority of those left.  In theory, if one Representative is left, he can elect a Speaker; as the Speaker does not have to be a member, he could elect someone else.
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Dave from Michigan
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2004, 11:44:16 PM »

You wouldn't need a majority of the entire possible members, just a majority of those left.  In theory, if one Representative is left, he can elect a Speaker; as the Speaker does not have to be a member, he could elect someone else.


Ok I wasn't sure.  Although trying to elect a speaker with less than half the House could be unpopular.
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ATFFL
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2004, 11:45:06 PM »

You wouldn't need a majority of the entire possible members, just a majority of those left.  In theory, if one Representative is left, he can elect a Speaker; as the Speaker does not have to be a member, he could elect someone else.


Ok I wasn't sure.  Although trying to elect a speaker with less than half the House could be unpopular.

If we are ever at that point, I think we will be a little more concerned with other matters.
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Bugs
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2004, 02:21:57 PM »

Even if it is only to be Acting President, the Speaker or the President pro tem would have to resign their Congressional position to assume the authority of the executive under current law.  There is nothing that couldn't cause the law to be changed, and I wish they would to take the PPT and the Speaker out of the line of succession.

I agree with this position, simply because they are not members of the execurive department, although 9iron's point illustrates how deep the line of succession goes with them included.  I favor having an automatic line of succession for each cabinet position too, as well as each seat in the House and Senate.  If the September 11 plane that crashed in Pennsylvania had made it to Washington and hit the capitol, the entire House or Senate could have been eliminated.  Having automatic replacements would have saved a tremendous amount of trouble.  

Such emergencies are rare, but they do happen.  An Oregon plane crash in 1947 killed the governor, first-in-line Sec. of State and second-in-line president of the Senate.  As prescribed in the state constitution the House Speaker became governor.  Fortunately there was a plan in place.
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Bogart
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2004, 03:34:47 PM »

I think the reason that the order of succession falls to the leaders of Congress before the Cabinet is that it was felt that, in the unlikely situation where both the president and vice president were both killed at the same time, the presidency would fall to an elected, rather than appointed, official.
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Bugs
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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2004, 02:49:27 PM »

I think the reason that the order of succession falls to the leaders of Congress before the Cabinet is that it was felt that, in the unlikely situation where both the president and vice president were both killed at the same time, the presidency would fall to an elected, rather than appointed, official.

Like Gerald Ford?
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TheWildCard
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2004, 03:00:57 AM »

Here's a question can the Speaker of the House be a foreign born citizen?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2004, 10:13:38 AM »

Here's a question can the Speaker of the House be a foreign born citizen?

Yes.  With the exception of the Vice Presidency, any of the offices  that are in the line of Presidential succession can be held by people who don't qualify to be President, they just wouldn't be able to succeed the President if the line passed down that far.  For eaxmple, there is no legal bar to keep Clnton or Bush-43 being a cabinet Secretary.
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DaleC76
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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2004, 12:22:22 PM »

^^ Here's another question I've seen debated many times.  Let's say Bush 43 or Clinton are serving as Speaker of the House in 2010.  The President and VP both resign in disgrace.  Does the former President then become President again?  Remember the 22nd Amendment only limits the number of times he can be elected, not the number of terms he can serve.
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Bugs
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2004, 02:06:34 PM »

The most they can serve as president is ten years, so they would probably be passed over.  But if the resignations occured after Jan 20, 2011, their total service wouldn't be over ten years before the new term began after the 2012 election, so it still might work.  Interesting scenario.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2004, 04:24:42 PM »

While one might argue that the Constitution would present no bar to a two term President becoming President again under such a scenario, the law that implements the line of succession after the VP explicitly requires that a person must be "eligible to the office of President under the Constitution".  Neither Clinton nor Bush-43 would be eligible for another term, so they could not succeed to the Presidency under any circumstance.
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