CNN An 8.8-magnitude earthquake has struck Japan

[Beet]

My guess is it was backup system that has failed.

But the backup system has been running for most of the past 36 hours right? I mean, is there a point where the core is cooled and we don't have to worry about any coolant systems?

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Well yeah but obviously shutting them down doesn't resolve the problem. I'd prepare to immediately dump seawater and boron into all the other cores right now in case their backup systems fail.

[J. J.]

My guess is it was backup system that has failed.

But the backup system has been running for most of the past 36 hours right? I mean, is there a point where the core is cooled and we don't have to worry about any coolant systems?

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Well yeah but obviously shutting them down doesn't resolve the problem. I'd prepare to immediately dump seawater and boron into all the other cores right now in case their backup systems fail.

All but five were shut down without incident.

[minionofmidas]

My guess is it was backup system that has failed.

But the backup system has been running for most of the past 36 hours right? I mean, is there a point where the core is cooled and we don't have to worry about any coolant systems?

There should be, yeah. Unless all sorts of chain reactions have been happening inside that we don't know about.
Basically, a lot of the info we're getting is still conflicting, and a lot of it is wrong, and it is not entirely clear which. (Though some are evidently correct or correctish.) So take everything here with a pinch of salt.

[Lunar]

Reactor 3 coolant has stopped working.

We might be talking meltdown.

We're now over 36 hours from the tsunami, so if the coolant just stopped working now, presumably it was working for most of the previous 36? Is there some point where the thing is cooled and we don't have to worry about the cooling system?

Also, if I were the Japanese I'd just start dumping seawater and boron into all of the cores now, there's no point in risking more failures.

Seawater is happening right now: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/world/asia/13nuclear.html?hp

[bgwah]

I'm eagerly awaiting the left-wing propaganda about the earthquake risk in Central Europe making nuclear energy a ticking time bomb.

oh, brother.

You must not be familiar with the German Greens.

If only they were as smart as you! Then we would have world peace, a cure for cancer, and a colony on Mars.

[Franzl]

Actually, I'm pretty sure they're a lot smarter than me (as you seem to be too). I would never had imagined an earthquake destroying a power plant in Germany, but thanks to their help, I'm learning about the grave danger we face.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Also, if I were the Japanese I'd just start dumping seawater and boron into all of the cores now, there's no point in risking more failures.

sea water is the last resort because any reactor having sea water dumped into it will never be started up again.

[bgwah]

Actually, I'm pretty sure they're a lot smarter than me (as you seem to be too). I would never had imagined an earthquake destroying a power plant in Germany, but thanks to their help, I'm learning about the grave danger we face.

I support nuclear energy, but thanks for trying. Now, if you're done using this tragedy for your own petty off-topic political agenda, I'm sure the rest of the forum would like to return to the discussion. I know I do!

[Beet]

Also, if I were the Japanese I'd just start dumping seawater and boron into all of the cores now, there's no point in risking more failures.

sea water is the last resort because any reactor having sea water dumped into it will never be started up again.

A small price to pay for the reactors that are in emergency mode right now, wouldn't you think? It sounds like these old battle wagons were about to be decommissioned anyway.

If a meltdown occurs, the US would have 10 days to evacuate the following states: AK, WA, OR, CA, ID, NV, AZ, UT, MT, WY, CO, NM. Here is the nuclear fallout map. Keep in mind that 450 rads is lethal for humans.



Right now the only thing preventing this is the dumping of seawater into the core of Unit No. 1, which is characterised thusly:

"Robert Alvarez, senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies and former senior policy adviser to the U.S. secretary of energy, said in a briefing for reporters that the seawater was a desperate measure.

"It's a Hail Mary pass," he said.

He said that the success of using seawater and boron to cool the reactor will depend on the volume and rate of their distribution. He said the dousing would need to continue nonstop for days."

And that's only for Unit No. 1, not to speak of Unit No. 3

[Middle-aged Europe]

^^

Eh, I admit that I'm not an expert... but what kind of a meltdown is this supposed to be? I mean when Chernobyl happened it didn't exactly result in the evacuation of half of Europe.

[Shilly]

Yeah, that map is a complete hoax. For one thing, rads have been an obsolete unit for thirty years, never mind that it is simply physically impossible for the wind to carry that huge amount of radiation over such a wide area.

[J. J.]

Also, if I were the Japanese I'd just start dumping seawater and boron into all of the cores now, there's no point in risking more failures.

sea water is the last resort because any reactor having sea water dumped into it will never be started up again.

A small price to pay for the reactors that are in emergency mode right now, wouldn't you think? It sounds like these old battle wagons were about to be decommissioned anyway.

If a meltdown occurs, the US would have 10 days to evacuate the following states: AK, WA, OR, CA, ID, NV, AZ, UT, MT, WY, CO, NM. Here is the nuclear fallout map. Keep in mind that 450 rads is lethal for humans.



Right now the only thing preventing this is the dumping of seawater into the core of Unit No. 1, which is characterised thusly:

"Robert Alvarez, senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies and former senior policy adviser to the U.S. secretary of energy, said in a briefing for reporters that the seawater was a desperate measure.

"It's a Hail Mary pass," he said.

He said that the success of using seawater and boron to cool the reactor will depend on the volume and rate of their distribution. He said the dousing would need to continue nonstop for days."

And that's only for Unit No. 1, not to speak of Unit No. 3

Looking at maps of Chernobyl, it should not reach the US in particularly high levels.  It would not even effect a large swath of the Pacific.

[Beet]

No, this is not like Chernobyl because the radiation was released by aerial exposure. So it could be contained by building a structure over it. Here, the if the core melts into the ground, it will seep out from the ground environment, it cannot be contained. The steel structure would collapse over the melted core and create an explosion far bigger than yesterday's hydrogen explosion. Furthermore, the power generation at the overall facility is far higher than Chernobyl.

Japan is now reporting that the pressure release for Unit No. 3 is NOT working.

Another earthquake is hitting Tokyo and Fukushima.

[J. J.]

No, this is not like Chernobyl because the radiation was released by aerial exposure. So it could be contained by building a structure over it. Here, the if the core melts into the ground, it will seep out from the ground environment, it cannot be contained. The steel structure would collapse over the melted core and create an explosion far bigger than yesterday's hydrogen explosion. Furthermore, the power generation at the overall facility is far higher than Chernobyl.

Japan is now reporting that the pressure release for Unit No. 3 is NOT working.

Another earthquake is hitting Tokyo and Fukushima.

It probably won't explode, but melt.  A lot of the radiation from Chernobyl was aerosolized; this shouldn't be.

The area around it will be uninhabitable, however., probably for eons.

[J. J.]

Beet, they are already saying no risk in the US:  http://www.komonews.com/news/local/117860469.html

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

F**k nuclear energy !

I hope you're joking.  That's an extremely immature way to react to something like this.  Accidents can happen in all kinds of power plants.  Nuclear energy still remains a relatively safe way of generating power.

[J. J.]

F**k nuclear energy !

I hope you're joking.  That's an extremely immature way to react to something like this.  Accidents can happen in all kinds of power plants.  Nuclear energy still remains a relatively safe way of generating power.

The plan was apparently flooded by the tsunami, which know the main cooling system along with one backup.

[Sam Spade]

Beet, that map is BS.

That being said, the dumping of seawater is a last-ditch effort that indicates they're likely f-ed.  And I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that area if the worst does occur.  But we're still talking about a limited area and whatever is directly downwind within a certain hundreds of miles.

The real problem is that we don't know the answers to what is really going on.  You can never trust the Japanese.

[J. J.]

Beet, that map is BS.

That being said, the dumping of seawater is a last-ditch effort that indicates they're likely f-ed.  And I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that area if the worst does occur.  But we're still talking about a limited area and whatever is directly downwind within a certain hundreds of miles.

The real problem is that we don't know the answers to what is really going on.  You can never trust the Japanese.

I would say "Fukushimaed."

[ilikeverin]

F**k nuclear energy !

I hope you're joking.  That's an extremely immature way to react to something like this.  Accidents can happen in all kinds of power plants.  Nuclear energy still remains a relatively safe way of generating power.

Yeah, such sentiments are ridiculous.  I really hate the idiotic greenies who get their knickers in a twist anytime a nuclear power plant so much as needs a new lightbulb (and obviously no one in this thread seems to have gone that far overboard).  For all the handwaving and yelling that's going on with the plants right now, we should obviously be paying far more attention to the fossil fuel-based power plants that dot Japan and are belching out wastes that are killing far more people than these plants likely ever will (even in the event of a meltdown!).  Unfortunately, humans are wired to care more about present day contingencies than ones far in the future, a problem which not even environmentalists can overcome when they worry so much about things like this that they lose sight of the fact that nuclear power is one of the cleanest, safest, most reliable energy sources on the face of the earth today.

...whew.  That felt good to say!

Anyway, despite all that I said above, still hoping for the best in this situation.  Amazing.  Could hardly have happened to a better-prepared country, though; Japan'll pull through.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

F**k nuclear energy !

I hope you're joking.  That's an extremely immature way to react to something like this.  Accidents can happen in all kinds of power plants.  Nuclear energy still remains a relatively safe way of generating power.

Yeah, such sentiments are ridiculous.  I really hate the idiotic greenies who get their knickers in a twist anytime a nuclear power plant so much as needs a new lightbulb (and obviously no one in this thread seems to have gone that far overboard).  For all the handwaving and yelling that's going on with the plants right now, we should obviously be paying far more attention to the fossil fuel-based power plants that dot Japan and are belching out wastes that are killing far more people than these plants likely ever will (even in the event of a meltdown!).  Unfortunately, humans are wired to care more about present day contingencies than ones far in the future, a problem which not even environmentalists can overcome when they worry so much about things like this that they lose sight of the fact that nuclear power is one of the cleanest, safest, most reliable energy sources on the face of the earth today.

...whew.  That felt good to say!

Anyway, despite all that I said above, still hoping for the best in this situation.  Amazing.  Could hardly have happened to a better-prepared country, though; Japan'll pull through.

But apparently you are not, O wise one (yes, you know that I would catch this post).

I have nothing to say on this topic except of course to add the obvious that any chance of a nuclear revival will be killed stone dead if this thing does blow. Which is probably for the best, there are simply too many variables for nuclear energy to considered 100% safe (though of course nothing can be).

[Lunar]

After this and the New Zealand quakes... I'm sure this has been covered earlier in the thread somewhere, but is there any indication as to which fault lines are the most likely next events?

[Mechaman]

F**k nuclear energy !

I hope you're joking.  That's an extremely immature way to react to something like this.  Accidents can happen in all kinds of power plants.  Nuclear energy still remains a relatively safe way of generating power.

Yeah, such sentiments are ridiculous.  I really hate the idiotic greenies who get their knickers in a twist anytime a nuclear power plant so much as needs a new lightbulb (and obviously no one in this thread seems to have gone that far overboard).  For all the handwaving and yelling that's going on with the plants right now, we should obviously be paying far more attention to the fossil fuel-based power plants that dot Japan and are belching out wastes that are killing far more people than these plants likely ever will (even in the event of a meltdown!).  Unfortunately, humans are wired to care more about present day contingencies than ones far in the future, a problem which not even environmentalists can overcome when they worry so much about things like this that they lose sight of the fact that nuclear power is one of the cleanest, safest, most reliable energy sources on the face of the earth today.

...whew.  That felt good to say!

Anyway, despite all that I said above, still hoping for the best in this situation.  Amazing.  Could hardly have happened to a better-prepared country, though; Japan'll pull through.

But apparently you are not, O wise one (yes, you know that I would catch this post).

O'beware ye mortal fools for no one is safe from the wrath of the Gully Foyle!

[ilikeverin]

But apparently you are not, O wise one (yes, you know that I would catch this post).

Of course you would *hughughug*

The cognitive-scientists-are-cognitive-so-if-we-believe-them-we-can't-trust-them argument has always been a bit strange to me, but whatever—I think the rest of my post still stands.  Your excellency, am I allowed to say I find it inconsistent for environmentalists to (rightfully, I believe) shriek in alarm about the deleterious effects of fossil fuels but forget about that whenever a nuclear plant does something vaguely negative, despite the fact that the worst nuclear power accident in history has resulted/will result in, oh, 4,000-ish deaths, which is probably wildly less than the number of deaths that will be attributable to global warming over the next century?

After this and the New Zealand quakes... I'm sure this has been covered earlier in the thread somewhere, but is there any indication as to which fault lines are the most likely next events?

Such things are not predictable

"Around fault lines"... that's about it.

[Lunar]

I know, I know, it's what makes earthquakes so scary, I grew up in the California foothills and know about shakes and whatnot.  They are intensely difficult to predict.  I was just interested in anything out there about the subject about a possible third big one in the Pacific