Micheal Moore in Wisconsin: "America is not broke"

[opebo]

Micheal Moore gives speech in Wisconsin - "America is not broke".

[Franzl]

If only he were right.

[opebo]

If only he were right.

Did you bother to listen to the speech?  The money still exists, its just in the hands of your betters.

[Torie]

Well, straight from the rumor mill, Mr. Moore apparently is. That is why perhaps he has resurfaced, after producing two box office bombs. He might not be the best guy from which to take financial advice. Just a thought.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Well, straight from the rumor mill, Mr. Moore apparently is. That is why perhaps he has resurfaced, after producing two box office bombs. He might not be the best guy from which to take financial advice. Just a thought.

his money still exists. it's just still in the hands of the people who haven't seen his movies yet.

[Torie]

Well, straight from the rumor mill, Mr. Moore apparently is. That is why perhaps he has resurfaced, after producing two box office bombs. He might not be the best guy from which to take financial advice. Just a thought.

his money still exists. it's just still in the hands of the people who haven't seen his movies yet.

. Someone should put that in the Goldmine.

[minionofmidas]

I knew Moore was Irish American, but I never knew he used the gaelic form for a first name. Learn something new every day...

[opebo]

Well, straight from the rumor mill, Mr. Moore apparently is. That is why perhaps he has resurfaced, after producing two box office bombs. He might not be the best guy from which to take financial advice. Just a thought.

He's not giving financial advice, Torie.

[Lief 🗽]

Well, straight from the rumor mill, Mr. Moore apparently is. That is why perhaps he has resurfaced, after producing two box office bombs. He might not be the best guy from which to take financial advice. Just a thought.

Huh? You realize he's made the 1st, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 10th most commercially successful documentaries ever, right?

[Torie]

Well, straight from the rumor mill, Mr. Moore apparently is. That is why perhaps he has resurfaced, after producing two box office bombs. He might not be the best guy from which to take financial advice. Just a thought.

Huh? You realize he's made the 1st, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 10th most commercially successful documentaries ever, right?

Yes, and he spent all the money. He has a lavish life style for a so called tribune of the people.

[Lief 🗽]

Yes, all left-wingers should be ascetics who live in tents and refuse to participate in the capitalist system and give away everything they earn to charity. Okay, Torie.

[Torie]

Yes, all left-wingers should be ascetics who live in tents and refuse to participate in the capitalist system and give away everything they earn to charity. Okay, Torie.

Anytime Lief. LOL.

[opebo]

Well, straight from the rumor mill, Mr. Moore apparently is. That is why perhaps he has resurfaced, after producing two box office bombs. He might not be the best guy from which to take financial advice. Just a thought.

Huh? You realize he's made the 1st, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 10th most commercially successful documentaries ever, right?

More to the point, Torie's critique of the man's argument was both ad hominem and straw man.  Mooreis not offering 'financial advice'; rather he is offering political commentary, and in either case the income of his movies is irrelevant to the validity of his comments.

[Franzl]

Yes, all left-wingers should be ascetics who live in tents and refuse to participate in the capitalist system and give away everything they earn to charity. Okay, Torie.

Yeah, right....that's all Moore is doing. Sure.

[opebo]

Yes, all left-wingers should be ascetics who live in tents and refuse to participate in the capitalist system and give away everything they earn to charity. Okay, Torie.

Yeah, right....that's all Moore is doing. Sure.

It is irrelevant to his argument whether he's ******** in a golden toilet bowl like all the other rich, Franzl.

 

[Torie]

Sure my comment was meant to be primarily smartass (who knew?), but not entirely.  If a guy can't manage his own money and is a spendthrift, just why would he knew a damn thing about macroeconomics, and just why would anyone repose any confidence in his opinions when it comes to money matters? The answer of course is that he doesn't know anything about macroeconomics, and,or its nexus with tax policy, or anything else of some complexity in this field. He doesn't have a clue. And unless he is pushing for a wealth tax (is he?), it's irrelevant - totally irrelevant - that the "Tories" of this world have millions or billions in the bank. It's just a throwaway line really. I was smartass, because what comes our of Mr. Moore's mouth isn't worth anything more than that when it comes to a response. He is, in short, a clown. JMO of course!

Now you may continue with your usual programming.

[memphis]

Sure my comment was meant to be primarily smartass (who knew?), but not entirely.  If a guy can't manage his own money and is a spendthrift, just why would he knew a damn thing about macroeconomics, and just why would anyone repose any confidence in his opinions when it comes to money matters? The answer of course is that he doesn't know anything about macroeconomics, and,or its nexus with tax policy, or anything else of some complexity in this field. He doesn't have a clue. And unless he is pushing for a wealth tax (is he?), it's irrelevant - totally irrelevant - that the "Tories" of this world have millions or billions in the bank. It's just a throwaway line really. I was smartass, because what comes our of Mr. Moore's mouth isn't worth anything more than that when it comes to a response. He is, in short, a clown. JMO of course!

Now you may continue with your usual programming.

Except even the tories can't take it with them. We need to restore the estate tax to Clinton levels.

[Хahar 🤔]

I knew Moore was Irish American, but I never knew he used the gaelic form for a first name. Learn something new every day...

How dare you take my joke before I get to make it? You're not improved at all!

[Torie]

Sure my comment was meant to be primarily smartass (who knew?), but not entirely.  If a guy can't manage his own money and is a spendthrift, just why would he knew a damn thing about macroeconomics, and just why would anyone repose any confidence in his opinions when it comes to money matters? The answer of course is that he doesn't know anything about macroeconomics, and,or its nexus with tax policy, or anything else of some complexity in this field. He doesn't have a clue. And unless he is pushing for a wealth tax (is he?), it's irrelevant - totally irrelevant - that the "Tories" of this world have millions or billions in the bank. It's just a throwaway line really. I was smartass, because what comes our of Mr. Moore's mouth isn't worth anything more than that when it comes to a response. He is, in short, a clown. JMO of course!

Now you may continue with your usual programming.

Except even the tories can't take it with them. We need to restore the estate tax to Clinton levels.

Actually the lower estate tax rate might result in more tax revenue. Why? Because with the higher tax rate, the MO was to dump all that cash into tax exempt foundations controlled by the family, and with all that foundation money came, yes you guessed it, power and prestige. And when you reach certain net worth numbers, that is what you spend your money on, unless a nutter. You can only fit some many Beamers in the garage, and there are just not enough days left in your life to consume it all. A foundation which you control is just the perfect accoutrement, and that is in fact what is done (plus you can pay yourself a salary for all your hard work managing it). And that is why the Feds didn't get that much money from the estate tax when it was at 55%.  You want more revenue? Then get rid of money going into foundations at death from being exempt from the estate tax. That will largely shut down new money going into foundations, and generate more tax revenue - a lot more tax revenue.

Thanks for bringing this issue up! I appreciate it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Sure my comment was meant to be primarily smartass (who knew?), but not entirely.  If a guy can't manage his own money and is a spendthrift, just why would he knew a damn thing about macroeconomics, and just why would anyone repose any confidence in his opinions when it comes to money matters? The answer of course is that he doesn't know anything about macroeconomics, and,or its nexus with tax policy, or anything else of some complexity in this field. He doesn't have a clue. And unless he is pushing for a wealth tax (is he?), it's irrelevant - totally irrelevant - that the "Tories" of this world have millions or billions in the bank. It's just a throwaway line really. I was smartass, because what comes our of Mr. Moore's mouth isn't worth anything more than that when it comes to a response. He is, in short, a clown. JMO of course!

Now you may continue with your usual programming.

Except even the tories can't take it with them. We need to restore the estate tax to Clinton levels.

Actually the lower estate tax rate might result in more tax revenue. Why? Because with the higher tax rate, the MO was to dump all that cash into tax exempt foundations controlled by the family, and with all that foundation money came, yes you guessed it, power and prestige. And when you reach certain net worth numbers, that is what you spend your money on, unless a nutter. You can only fit some many Beamers in the garage, and there are just not enough days left in your life to consume it all. A foundation which you control is just the perfect accoutrement, and that is in fact what is done (plus you can pay yourself a salary for all your hard work managing it). And that is why the Feds didn't get that much money from the estate tax when it was at 55%.  You want more revenue? Then get rid of money going into foundations at death from being exempt from the estate tax. That will largely shut down new money going into foundations, and generate more tax revenue - a lot more tax revenue.

Thanks for bringing this issue up! I appreciate it.

Hence why raising taxes and raising revenue are not the same thing.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The idea that lowering taxes of any sort at this point would result in more tax revenue than would've otherwise been created by increasing taxes is such a complete assault on common sense (and in the case of straight up income taxes, thoroughly debunked) that I cannot believe otherwise intelligent people like you guys would buy it.

[Dgov]

The idea that lowering taxes of any sort at this point would result in more tax revenue than would've otherwise been created by increasing taxes is such a complete assault on common sense (and in the case of straight up income taxes, thoroughly debunked) that I cannot believe otherwise intelligent people like you guys would buy it.

Sure, not right away.  What i think your missing is that lowering taxes increases revenues in the long term.  A side effect of rich people getting richer is that they inevitably pay more taxes on their new-found wealth.  That's the reason why, despite the fact that Reagan sliced the top tax rates, the actual tax revenue from that top income group doubled during his presidency.

Granted, relying on high-income earners too much for you tax base poses other problems (since they lose the relative most in downturns, creating bigger cyclical deficits), but it's not like cutting the top tax rates is functionally independent from future tax revenues.

[DrScholl]

There is a difference between broke and mismanaged. If the country was broke, there would be even bigger problems. Years of mismanagement takes years to undo. The deficit was created by cutting taxes, but increasing spending. The low tax proponents were too lazy to balance the budget. You can't cut revenue when spending is already beyond what available revenue there is, you get higher deficits.

An example of how asinine this line of economics is this. If a person loses a portion of their income, then increases their spending habits, overdrawing their bank accounts and maxing out their credit, they go under completely. We need a balanced budget amendment, the government can't continue to bounce checks and spend unwisely, real world principles need to apply.

[opebo]

Sure my comment was meant to be primarily smartass (who knew?), but not entirely.  If a guy can't manage his own money and is a spendthrift, just why would he knew a damn thing about macroeconomics...

Because macroeconomics is essentially the opposite of 'personal finance', Torie, and spendthrifts do tend to be much better at it than small-minded parsimonious nincompoops.

[memphis]

The idea that lowering taxes of any sort at this point would result in more tax revenue than would've otherwise been created by increasing taxes is such a complete assault on common sense (and in the case of straight up income taxes, thoroughly debunked) that I cannot believe otherwise intelligent people like you guys would buy it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why not drop all taxes to 0%? That would really bring in the money. What the estate tax does in addition to raising revenue is getting the hoarders to spend, something that is vital right now. A recovery is impossible unless we can squeeze out the endless billions from the owners' hands.