Do you want the current Egyptian revolution to succeed? (take 2)

[dead0man]

**please read before voting**
Do you want the current Egyptian revolution to succeed, despite not knowing what will come out in the end?  It seems many people are more comfortable with the "devil we know" and just assume that Islamonutjob Fundies will win the day even though there is little evidence supporting that conclusion other than that the fact that they (the Muslim Brotherhood) were the "primary organized opposition" during Mubarak's reign.

[Franzl]

I tend to, yes.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I'm torn. I believe that opressive dictators everywhere should be overthrown, however I'm afraid that in the case of Egypt what follows might be even more opressive. In the hope that the revolution would result in a (somewhat) stable democracy though, I guess I'd have to say yes.

   

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes, as long as it leads to a democratic regime.

[opebo]

No of course not.

[Nhoj]

Yes of course.

[Frodo]

Absolutely -and the sooner the Mubarak regime collapses, the better.  With any luck, the new Egypt will more closely resemble Turkey than merely being the Sunni Arab version of the Islamic Republic of Iran.  

[afleitch]

No one can or should say yes or no at this stage in the game. It would be irresponsible to.

[Beet]

After reading more articles, I'm switching to yes.

[opebo]

Absolutely -and the sooner the Mubarak regime collapses, the better.  With any luck, the new Egypt will more closely resemble Turkey than merely being the Sunni Arab version of the Islamic Republic of Iran.  

No, it will be like Iran.  Why would it be like Turkey?  Mubarak was the best chance of that - a poor Attaturk, but certainly these mobs will make it an Islamist state. 

[dead0man]

"the Arabs are the same Arabs and the sea is the same sea" heh?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's unlikely to be that much like either; Egypt is a very large country with unique problems and issues.

[redcommander]

Yes as long as it leads to democracy.

[opebo]

"the Arabs are the same Arabs and the sea is the same sea" heh?

No, neither the Turks nor the Iranians are Arabs.  But they're all Muslims.  Doesn't anyone understand that revolutions tend to lead to extremism, not somehow magically to liberal democracy?

[Person Man]

"the Arabs are the same Arabs and the sea is the same sea" heh?

No, neither the Turks nor the Iranians are Arabs.  But they're all Muslims.  Doesn't anyone understand that revolutions tend to lead to extremism, not somehow magically to liberal democracy?

That's the wierd thing about this. Turks are kinda sorta Asians and Iranians are kinda sorta White and when we think of Middle Eastern Revolutionary politics, we think of them.

[dead0man]

"the Arabs are the same Arabs and the sea is the same sea" heh?

No, neither the Turks nor the Iranians are Arabs.

Yes I know, that wasn't my point...It's a famous quote....but never mind.

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Except when they don't.  I'd like to give the good people of Egypt the chance instead of keeping them under the boot of sh**tty governments.  You hate poor people (sorry..."poors") and love the authoritarian boot of big government.  I'll never understand why some "normal" lefties like you.

[Person Man]

"the Arabs are the same Arabs and the sea is the same sea" heh?

No, neither the Turks nor the Iranians are Arabs.

Yes I know, that wasn't my point...It's a famous quote....but never mind.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Except when they don't.  I'd like to give the good people of Egypt the chance instead of keeping them under the boot of sh**tty governments.  You hate poor people (sorry..."poors") and love the authoritarian boot of big government.  I'll never understand why some "normal" lefties like you.

I think he's trying to say that Liberal Democracy only works if the majority, or somehow enough of the population in a certain country is free of some host of what can be considered intellectual or moral defects. Based on this criteria, he doesn't believe that Liberal Democracy has a chance in Eygpt. 

[Beet]

Another thing worth pointing out, is that there is more than one elephant in the room. Saudi Arabia, on the other side of the Red Sea, the world second-largest oil producer, armed with billions in US military $$$, where an autocratic monarchical regime rules a country and the alternative are the Wahhabists.

[opebo]

Except when they don't.  I'd like to give the good people of Egypt the chance instead of keeping them under the boot of sh**tty governments.  You hate poor people (sorry..."poors") and love the authoritarian boot of big government.  I'll never understand why some "normal" lefties like you.

'Good people'?  I see that's where we differ.. I see that as a bit of an oxymoron.

I think he's trying to say that Liberal Democracy only works if the majority, or somehow enough of the population in a certain country is free of some host of what can be considered intellectual or moral defects. Based on this criteria, he doesn't believe that Liberal Democracy has a chance in Eygpt. 

Well said, and not far from what I think.  Though I'm quite skeptical of democracy in any human population, certainly the one in Egypt is noisome.

[phk]

History will record that democracy could have been the fixed to this ideological poison, but the dosage administered by the Americans was too little, too late. The jihadists will initially carry plenty of Muslim nihilists to their side as they score blitzkrieg raids and form mercurial Sunni triangles, trapezoids, and hexagons that eventually morph into an expansive state with a caliph as its ruler.

To defeat this menace, America and much of the world that relies on the region's energy resources will sacrifice a generation of fighting men and pacific civilians.

Am I a crank or a visionary?

[dead0man]

you're a horrible, horrible person. (or a fake douchebag)

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Yes, as long as it leads to a democratic regime.

Lolwut?

[Person Man]

You're not a crank, except that the solution isn't democracy, its simply to get Mubarak and friends to mow them down.  Mow them down by the tens of thousands, with bunker busters going off in urban centers.  Get serious.

I mean, we could simply develop a game where we stay out of the reigon and if there is a terrorist attack or an oil embargo or an unfavorable decision, we just go in, kick their ass and leave.  Then again, I wonder what would happen if we really did start developing thermonuclear, atomic and solar power for infrastructure and hydrogen and grid-based automobile designs and all of the sudden we no longer needed their oil....would that reigon's mode modern nations become more like Europe and less modern reigons become more like Africa? 

[opebo]

you're a horrible, horrible person. (or a fake douchebag)

No, its just a horrible world.  Your comforts grow out of someone's blood, buddy.  I'm just willing to face that.

Yes, as long as it leads to a democratic regime.

Lolwut?

YES, precisely.

You're not a crank, except that the solution isn't democracy, its simply to get Mubarak and friends to mow them down.  Mow them down by the tens of thousands, with bunker busters going off in urban centers.  Get serious.

I mean, we could simply develop a game where we stay out of the reigon and if there is a terrorist attack or an oil embargo or an unfavorable decision, we just go in, kick their ass and leave.  Then again, I wonder what would happen if we really did start developing thermonuclear, atomic and solar power for infrastructure and hydrogen and grid-based automobile designs and all of the sudden we no longer needed their oil....would that reigon's mode modern nations become more like Europe and less modern reigons become more like Africa? 

I'm really not that optimistic about those alternative fuel schemes.  We might manage to reduce our need for oil somewhat, if we were willing to accept a much simpler mode of life, but we'll still depend on it almost absolutely for things like moving our foodstuffs around.  And, with China, India, etc., lapping it up, these Islamic mobs are only going to get more leverage over us, not less.  The future is a dismal one I fear, even with the heroic efforts of Mubarak the Stalwart.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Yes: Mubarak is 82 and in poor health, and leads a corrupt, deeply unpopular bunker regime with little remaining support in any section of the Egyptian populace. Even if he hangs on, he has at most five years left, and if this revolution fails, the chance of the Muslim Brotherhood taking over down the road increases greatly. The sooner he leaves power, the more likely a transition in the direction of democracy is. The longer he can hold on, the greater the chance for an Islamist takeover.