Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

[You kip if you want to...]

I have some guesses about who that Senator might be, of course there are the obvious choices, but I would imagine it's someone that would completely surprise us since they wanted to hide their identity.

I think the wildcard could be McCain.

[Sam Spade]

lying bitch.

ah, so this is the type of rhetoric we should be using to promote nonviolence. i see.

and what exactly does that have to do with violence? Actually, don't bother.

Well, it doesn't contribute to a softening of tone that many in these threads are calling for.

It seems, not just through reading this thread, but through the responses of many persons who were quick to point fingers and even quicker to call for the silencing of opinions of other people with certain political views under the guise of "bringing civility back to political discussions", that there is little interest in softening the tone of the political debate, as the actual effect of these unsubstantiated accusations is similar to the effect of poking one's fingers into the eyes of the neighbor's pet dog repeatedly.

There is zero evidence that the "heightened political rhetoric" of the past two years has anything to do with what occurred.  And if it did, big deal.  American political history is full of incendiary rhetoric, violence and calls for revolution.  And we're better for it because of it, imho.

[/2 cents]

[Gren]

I am very sad that this happened, but I can't say that it is unexpected. I don't live in the US, but I do watch TV and follow what's going on in America, and I have to admit that I've noticed that the political climate over there is now extremely tense. Maybe it's too early to speak about an "ideological crime" but I just want to tell something: even my parents, who aren't specially interested in nor informed about US politics, said that this was probably caused by those Tea Partiers, of whom they actually don't know much about, but whose extremism and hate has crossed the ocean and caused that many Europeans see the US as a radical, rightwing stronghold.

[You kip if you want to...]

I am very sad that this happened, but I can't say that it is unexpected. I don't live in the US, but I do watch TV and follow what's going on in America, and I have to admit that I've noticed that the political climate over there is now extremely tense. Maybe it's too early to speak about an "ideological crime" but I just want to tell something: even my parents, who aren't specially interested in nor informed about US politics, said that this was probably caused by those Tea Partiers, of whom they actually don't know much about, but whose extremism and hate has crossed the ocean and caused that many Europeans see the US as a radical, rightwing stronghold.

Mine said exactly the same.

[Franzl]

even my parents, who aren't specially interested in nor informed about US politics, said that this was probably caused by those Tea Partiers, of whom they actually don't know much about, but whose extremism and hate has crossed the ocean and caused that many Europeans see the US as a radical, rightwing stronghold.

It doesn't exactly help that most of the European press is pretty strongly biased in favor of the Democrats (well...Obama primarily...Europe still loves him).

It almost seems like they try their best to present Republicans and the Tea Party as legitimately evil. (And before you say "well, that's true", that's an opinion to which anyone is entitled, consider that it absolutely isn't neutral reporting.)

[You kip if you want to...]

even my parents, who aren't specially interested in nor informed about US politics, said that this was probably caused by those Tea Partiers, of whom they actually don't know much about, but whose extremism and hate has crossed the ocean and caused that many Europeans see the US as a radical, rightwing stronghold.

It doesn't exactly help that most of the European press is pretty strongly biased in favor of the Democrats (well...Obama primarily...Europe still loves him).

It almost seems like they try their best to present Republicans and the Tea Party as legitimately evil. (And before you say "well, that's true", that's an opinion to which anyone is entitled, consider that it absolutely isn't neutral reporting.)

Well, many European countries were dragged (by their own and the American governments) kicking and screaming into an illegal war due to, well... you know the rest, so naturally, the Republicans are hated in Commie ol' Europe with their communist health care and their communist culture. The current 'faces' of the GOP like a certain former governor, saying we have death panels and that our Grandparents are lucky to be alive, just make it worse.

We're not big fans of guns either.

[Franzl]

And what does that have to do with press bias? It's ok if the majority of people feel that way?

[Brittain33]

silencing of opinions of other people with certain political views

If you can't express your opinion without calling for the assassination of public officials, and feel silenced if you can't demand that people kill elected officials because you didn't vote for them, you should try harder or maybe think a little more. I don't feel particularly Stalinist for espousing that view. It's generally the most incompetent Republicans who have to resort to calling for "second amendment remedies," the vast majority of them don't have to stoop that low. I would counter that people who are looking at this very narrow point we are making about calling for assassinations and complaining about "silencing" are trying to make an unsupported political point of their own. Meanwhile, a representative lies bleeding in a coma in the hospital. That is a big deal.

[Brittain33]

Democracy can not survive if people resort to physical violence when they lose at the ballot box.

[Franzl]

Democracy can not survive if people resort to physical violence when they lose at the ballot box.

Of course not. Hardly anyone would dispute that, though....and the tragic shooting of Giffords certainly wasn't a case of that.

[The Dowager Mod]

Tea party nation founder Judson Philips urged tea party supporters to blame liberals for the attack on centrist Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, who was shot through the head and is now fighting for her life, as a means of defending the tea party movement's recent electoral gains.

Stay classy teabaggers.

[fezzyfestoon]

Tea party nation founder Judson Philips urged tea party supporters to blame liberals for the attack on centrist Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, who was shot through the head and is now fighting for her life, as a means of defending the tea party movement's recent electoral gains.

Stay classy teabaggers.

Politics are an inherently soulless line of work, this really shouldn't be unexpected at this point (unfortunately).

[Keystone Phil]

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt.

Tea Party.

A reasonable hypothesis two hours after the event before anything was known about the man.

Ok but that proves that someone was blaming the Tea Party (so you're wrong right off the bat) and it's dangerous to assign blame like that without knowing.

Basically, your side is allowed to lecture about rhetoric/tone but you can speak however you'd like. Keep lecturing while demonizing the Tea Party and Palin then tell me how you're not being blatantly hypocritical.

[Keystone Phil]

Democracy can not survive if people resort to physical violence when they lose at the ballot box.

Of course not. Hardly anyone would dispute that, though....and the tragic shooting of Giffords certainly wasn't a case of that.

Stop that. It isn't right to interrupt their Palin/Tea Party bashing during this tragedy.

[Brittain33]

Democracy can not survive if people resort to physical violence when they lose at the ballot box.

Of course not. Hardly anyone would dispute that, though....and the tragic shooting of Giffords certainly wasn't a case of that.

Stop that. It isn't right to interrupt their Palin/Tea Party bashing during this tragedy.

Phil, you're better than this.

If you don't understand what I mean, go read what I actually said about Palin in this thread and then say it again.

[Eraserhead]

lying bitch.

ah, so this is the type of rhetoric we should be using to promote nonviolence. i see.

and what exactly does that have to do with violence? Actually, don't bother.

Well, it doesn't contribute to a softening of tone that many in these threads are calling for.

It seems, not just through reading this thread, but through the responses of many persons who were quick to point fingers and even quicker to call for the silencing of opinions of other people with certain political views under the guise of "bringing civility back to political discussions", that there is little interest in softening the tone of the political debate, as the actual effect of these unsubstantiated accusations is similar to the effect of poking one's fingers into the eyes of the neighbor's pet dog repeatedly.

There is zero evidence that the "heightened political rhetoric" of the past two years has anything to do with what occurred.  And if it did, big deal.  American political history is full of incendiary rhetoric, violence and calls for revolution.  And we're better for it because of it, imho.

[/2 cents]

Maybe. The people who die as result of those things certainly aren't better for it though. It's kind of a dilemma.

[Frodo]

Threads like these are a perfect example of the kind of politics we should all be moving away from. 

[frihetsivrare]

According to a former classmate, the shooter was a left-wing pothead.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

OK well that makes it quite clear he was left wing. After all we know every single person who has ever used marijuana is left wing.

[Sewer]

Left wingers don't like Mein Kampf.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The only thing that bothers me about this thread (other than JJ's trolling) is how many times Brittain and Sewer have had to repeat themselves because some people can't read.

[patrick1]

Threads like these are a perfect example of the kind of politics we should all be moving away from. 

Haha, not likely. 

You see the person on the other side of the ideological spectrum is evil. That is why we must project all negative qualities onto to them. Therefore, the murderer Jared Lee Loughner had to be _______ wing.

[DrScholl]

Again, the very point of all of this is very easy to understand. Rather or not anyone's rhetoric sparked the shooting, there are people who still need to stop using rhetoric that can incite trouble. We don't need anymore incidents like this, our political environment is out of control and it needs to be pulled back into stability.

[ajc0918]

Can a mod please delete this thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=130372.0

I can't because I just can't and yeah it says "confirmed dead" which is obviously not the case anymore. So yeah can a mod remove it please because I feel stupid that I made it. lol I don't even know if it's possible to delete thread...but yeah

[cinyc]

Again, the very point of all of this is very easy to understand. Rather or not anyone's rhetoric sparked the shooting, there are people who still need to stop using rhetoric that can incite trouble. We don't need anymore incidents like this, our political environment is out of control and it needs to be pulled back into stability.

And who is supposed to determine which of these "people" must cease exercising their First Amendment right to free political speech?