Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

[Antonio the Sixth]

Palin's rhetoric dramatically banalized violence in politics, and that's why some insane has decided to act.

[Franzl]

Palin? What on Earth does Palin have to do with this? Of all the rhetoric in recent times...I find it rather amusing that you single Palin out.

[Storebought]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

[Franzl]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

[Hash]

This thread is a nice trainwreck.

[You kip if you want to...]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47307.html

Hero.

[Storebought]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

The Austrian kid mentioned something about using some law, or something, to silence Palin if her blogs were discovered on the shooter's computer.

[Landslide Lyndon]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

The Austrian kid mentioned something about using some law, or something, to silence Palin if her blogs were discovered on the shooter's computer.

The "Austrian Kid" is part of the American Left?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

The Austrian kid mentioned something about using some law, or something, to silence Palin if her blogs were discovered on the shooter's computer.

The "Austrian Kid" is part of the American Left?

Those damn foreigners.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Btw, what members of Congress have their security details? I bet Speaker have one. Others?

[J. J.]

Palin's rhetoric dramatically banalized violence in politics, and that's why some insane has decided to act.

Violence in politics has banalized since 1963, if not 1865.

From what we are hearing, the guy had some psychological problems (and may have wanted to impress Mylie Cyrus, for all I know).

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal and joined in the reading of the Constitution last week.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Btw, what members of Congress have their security details? I bet Speaker have one. Others?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-congress-security-20110109,0,6401925.story

[J. J.]

Btw, what members of Congress have their security details? I bet Speaker have one. Others?

In the 1990's Gingrich had a single security officer that doubled as a driver; it became a political issue in one campaign.

[Storebought]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

The Austrian kid mentioned something about using some law, or something, to silence Palin if her blogs were discovered on the shooter's computer.

The "Austrian Kid" is part of the American Left?

The sentiment was expressed here by a foreigner, but the idea of banning hate speech, which they presume Palin expounds, certainly exists among the American left. **

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The situation kept moving so the opportunity to reply to this last night wasn't really there. So I'll do it now, even though it's not massively relevant to recent developments.

The trouble is, it's a reasonable conclusion to leap to (for various reasons) even if it may well be wrong. Violent political language often leads to political violence, though, of course, we don't know whether that was the case here.

That is pure nonsense, whose logical conclusion would lead to a ban on political speech lest someone get hurt.   The only conclusion that is reasonable to leap to is no conclusion at all until all the facts are known.  The shooter could have any motivation or no motivation at all.

No, that is absolutely not the logical conclusion of such concerns. The logical conclusion would be to avoid using violent (a few posts on the term switched to 'hateful'; I would argue that there's an important distinction, actually) language against political opponents, something that is (happily) not hard to do.

Of course the situation has moved on and we now know more about the person that did this (who appears to be a standard issue anti-system lunatic) so making assertions relating to the more extreme rhetoric associated with the 'Tea Party' is not reasonable or particularly fair, at least based on the information that we have at the moment. But as an immediate reaction, before anything was known about the killer?

But, again, the situation has moved on now. This was political - any attempt to kill a politician at a public event is political - but it's the politics of the fetid darkness beyond the fringes, and not of large political movements (whatever we might personally think of them).

I just wanted to clear that up, or at least try to.

[exopolitician]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

The Austrian kid mentioned something about using some law, or something, to silence Palin if her blogs were discovered on the shooter's computer.

The "Austrian Kid" is part of the American Left?

The sentiment was expressed here by a foreigner, but the idea of banning hate speech, which they presume Palin expounds, certainly exists among the American left. **

Not ban it, but she definitely needs to watch what she says. That goes for anyone in both parties.

[Iosif]

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal

I guess she didn't deserve it then.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal

I guess she didn't deserve it then.

Sorry, J.J., but it sounded like "if she were a flaming liberal then..."

[anvi]

I can't help but reproduce here a quote from the story posted by Refudiate, from Daniel Hernandez, 30, who rushed to Giffords' aid after she was shot, probably while shots were still being fired, and helped control the bleeding until the paramedics arrived.

“You just have to be calm and collected.  You do no good to anyone if you have a breakdown.. .. It was probably not the best idea to run toward the gunshots, but people needed help.”

[Tender Branson]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

The Austrian kid mentioned something about using some law, or something, to silence Palin if her blogs were discovered on the shooter's computer.

The "Austrian Kid" is part of the American Left?

The sentiment was expressed here by a foreigner, but the idea of banning hate speech, which they presume Palin expounds, certainly exists among the American left. **

This could be probably used here:

U.S. Code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 102 > § 2101 > Riots

Whoever travels in interstate or foreign commerce or uses any facility of interstate or foreign commerce, including, but not limited to, the mail, telegraph, telephone, radio, or television, with intent—

(1) to incite a riot; or
(2) to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot; or
(3) to commit any act of violence in furtherance of a riot; or
(4) to aid or abet any person in inciting or participating in or carrying on a riot or committing any act of violence in furtherance of a riot;

and who either during the course of any such travel or use or thereafter performs or attempts to perform any other overt act for any purpose specified in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), or (D) of this paragraph— [1]

Shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002101----000-.html

In Austria it is normal that the Greens file lawsuits all the time regarding "incitement of hatred" when the FPÖ crosses some line ...

It would probably be rejected anyway, but Palin should better watch out in the future what she says and does.

[J. J.]

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal

I guess she didn't deserve it then.

Pelosi, who is a flaming liberal, wouldn't deserve it.  I guess you'd think Darrell Issa would, right?

Had Kelly won, he would not have deserved it.

[J. J.]

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal

I guess she didn't deserve it then.

Sorry, J.J., but it sounded like "if she were a flaming liberal then..."

No, but if the guy was acting on a political basis, as has been suggested by some of the left leaning folks here, Gifford would not be good target.

[Storebought]

What else can you say that a certain segment of the left needs ... deperately needs ... a pretext of this sort to use state force to silence the Tea Party, even when the situtation does not at all serve the purpose.

In the left's defense, who has demanded that the Tea Party be silenced by "state force"? I haven't heard anyone even cone close to that.

The Austrian kid mentioned something about using some law, or something, to silence Palin if her blogs were discovered on the shooter's computer.

The "Austrian Kid" is part of the American Left?

The sentiment was expressed here by a foreigner, but the idea of banning hate speech, which they presume Palin expounds, certainly exists among the American left. **

This could be probably used here:

U.S. Code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 102 > § 2101 > Riots

Whoever travels in interstate or foreign commerce or uses any facility of interstate or foreign commerce, including, but not limited to, the mail, telegraph, telephone, radio, or television, with intent—

(1) to incite a riot; or
(2) to organize, promote, encourage, participate in, or carry on a riot; or
(3) to commit any act of violence in furtherance of a riot; or
(4) to aid or abet any person in inciting or participating in or carrying on a riot or committing any act of violence in furtherance of a riot;

and who either during the course of any such travel or use or thereafter performs or attempts to perform any other overt act for any purpose specified in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), or (D) of this paragraph— [1]

Shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002101----000-.html

In Austria it is normal that the Greens file lawsuits all the time regarding "incitement of hatred" when the FPÖ crosses some line ...

It would probably be rejected anyway, but Palin should better watch out in the future what she says and does.

I hardly agree that what Palin tweets can "incite a riot," or encourages non-psychotics to participate in one.

My biggest fear is that the Left will allow make use of the antics of a psychotic to suppress through government (eg. some injunction or executive order) the speech of people who already believe that the left uses government to infringe on their rights of association and expression. The Justice department hacking Palin's tweets, for ex., would undoubtedly instigate popular violence.

[Insula Dei]

From what I've heard about Gifford, she was not a flaming liberal

I guess she didn't deserve it then.

Sorry, J.J., but it sounded like "if she were a flaming liberal then..."

No, but if the guy was acting on a political basis, as has been suggested by some of the left leaning folks here, Gifford would not be good target.

Well, she'd make a more logical target than a liberal congressman in a liberal district because the killer could have felt she was a 'traitor'. Also, the guy just seems to have gone with whoever he had acces to, so the mere fact of being a democrat could have been sufficient.

[afleitch]

I hardly agree that what Palin tweets can "incite a riot," or encourages non-psychotics to participate in one.

My biggest fear is that the Left will allow make use of the antics of a psychotic to suppress through government (eg. some injunction or executive order) the speech of people who already believe that the left uses government to infringe on their rights of association and expression. The Justice department hacking Palin's tweets, for ex., would undoubtedly instigate popular violence.

The fact you 'fear' this will happen says a lot about your state of mind.