The Fees Vote

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Or 'Crisis in Yellowtown'.

It seems to make sense to start a single thread as the vote will be this week and otherwise things will get out of control, maybe.

The big issue is the size of the likely LibDem rebellion and how many the leadership can convert into abstentions (given the maths of this parliament, a LibDem abstention is almost as good as an actual vote for the government) and how many earlier abstentions can be turned into votes in favour. A serious three-way split on the vote would look very bad, but also looks increasingly likely.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Anyway, today's news is that Norman Baker (a junior transport minister, professional crank and the least likely member of any government for decades) is considering resigning in order to vote against the government, and that Mike Crockhart (a PPS) is basically certain to.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Probably the best article on the internets about the whole issue: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n21/stefan-collini/brownes-gamble

[minionofmidas]

Any chance of Tory rebels?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Any chance of Tory rebels?

Maybe one or two (there were a couple that signed the NUS pledge thingy) but the vote will be tightly whipped and the old High Tory tradition is basically dead.

[You kip if you want to...]

Let's be honest, about 40 LDs need to give a firm No vote for it to fail. It'll pass and to pretend otherwise is stupid. The fall from grace of the Liberals is their own doing.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

and that Mike Crockhart (a PPS) is basically certain to.

Well, er, no. He isn't. Read this and try not to laugh: http://www.guardian.co.uk/edinburgh/2010/dec/06/edinburgh-mike-crockart-denies-quit-fees-rumour

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No comment: http://politicalscrapbook.net/2010/12/john-hemming-office-protest-interview/

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Amusing. Several Tory right-wingers have announced that they're going to vote against this.

[danny]

Amusing. Several Tory right-wingers have announced that they're going to vote against this.

Why would they do that?

[You kip if you want to...]

Amusing. Several Tory right-wingers have announced that they're going to vote against this.

Why would they do that?

David Davis wants to be the leader.

[minionofmidas]

Backbenchers all?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Backbenchers all?

Obviously. And, so far at least, not many. But it's an interesting development.

[Gustaf]

and that Mike Crockhart (a PPS) is basically certain to.

Well, er, no. He isn't. Read this and try not to laugh: http://www.guardian.co.uk/edinburgh/2010/dec/06/edinburgh-mike-crockart-denies-quit-fees-rumour

What does PPS mean? Pretentious piece of sh*t?

[minionofmidas]

Yes. (Also known as Parliamentary Private Secretary, but don't ask me what they do.)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes. (Also known as Parliamentary Private Secretary, but don't ask me what they do.)

Bag carriers.

[Silent Hunter]

Yes. (Also known as Parliamentary Private Secretary, but don't ask me what they do.)

Bag carriers.

Yep; they don't get paid and the camera generally cuts their heads off at PMQs.

[You kip if you want to...]

Yes. (Also known as Parliamentary Private Secretary, but don't ask me what they do.)

Bag carriers.

Yep; they don't get paid and the camera generally cuts their heads off at PMQs.

Guess it's good if you wanna make it to the front bench after a term or so. Chucka Ummuna is Ed Miliband's PPS, right?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yeah, it's the first foot or so up the greasy poll.

---

LibDem ministers have decided to hang together: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11935176

Pun intended, naturally.

[k-onmmunist]

Hooray for treachery!

[Franzl]

I have no strong opinion on the fees proposal.....although going from 3,000 to 9,000 does seem somewhat, excessive.

I don't know what exactly is being proposed.....but if this is an overnight increase, I might even vote with the opposition, were I an MP.


But disregarding my personal views.....how exactly are the Lib Dems selling this to voters? It seems somewhat even more disgusting than usual political lies for a party to advocate abolishing tuition fees (bad idea....but it was their platform), and then vote to triple those fees less than a year after the election.

[Franzl]

But disregarding my personal views.....how exactly are the Lib Dems selling this to voters? It seems somewhat even more disgusting than usual political lies for a party to advocate abolishing tuition fees (bad idea....but it was their platform), and then vote to triple those fees less than a year after the election.

On a similar note (but obviously not near as large of an issue as this), the aftermath of the 2005 German federal election was amusing.

CDU had supported a VAT increase from 16% to 18%, SPD was against raising it at all.

So what happened when CDU and SPD formed a grand coalition? It was raised to 19%.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

But disregarding my personal views.....how exactly are the Lib Dems selling this to voters?

They aren't.

Unless you count shutting their constituency offices for fear of protests:



Basically all attention has been focused on making sure that the rebellion is as small as possible, rather than on trying to justify their position to the electorate in general and to students in particular. Beyond the usual platitudes about 'fairness' that tend to be attached to all government policies these days they've not really even tried much. But then it's essentially impossible to defend this policy from a pre-coalition LibDem point of view; you can't even argue that this will secure the financial position of universities as the teaching grant is going to be cut by 80%.

[Silent Hunter]

[digression]
Speaking of VAT; I was watching an old episode of The Professionals from 1979. During it, Doyle breaks into a house to find out why this journalist is being targeted for a hit.

He's caught by the guy's wife (played by Lynda Bellingham, BTW). He gives the story that he used to own a copy shop but was forced out of business when VAT was increased to 15%...
[/digression]

The Lib Dems are claiming that the Coalition Agreement trumps their manifesto. A coalition they didn't have to form - they could have got by with a confidence and supply arrangement.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It also doesn't explain why red lines weren't drawn around the one policy that LibDems across the country all advocated with a degree of enthusiasm and with which they were closely identified. If it were a football match, the Tory negotiating team seems to have won something like 5-1.