Europe- Liberal to Conservative?

[English]

Anyone like to try catagorising Western European nations from Liberal to Conservative?

Here's my go....

Denmark,
Netherlands,
Sweden,
Germany,
Belgium,
Norway,
Iceland,
Finland,
Luxembourg,
United Kingdom,
France,
Spain,
Switzerland,
Portugal,
Italy,
Ireland,
Austria,
Cyprus,
Greece,
Malta.

Think that's it. Not sure where Liechenstein, Andorra, San Marino and Monaco would go!

For Eastern Europe, a rough guess....

Czech Rep,
Estonia,
Slovenia,
Latvia,
Hungary,
Slovakia,
Ukraine,
Russian Fed,
Romania,
Yugoslavia,
Croatia,
Bulgaria,
Lithuania,
Macedonia,
Belorussia,
Bosnia,
Albania,
Poland.

[patrick1]

What parameters are you using because I would have to disagree with a few at first glance?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Economic or Social? Makes a big difference in Eastern Europe.

Especially with Poland.

[patrick1]

Greece also has a long socialist and communist tradition.  Like half the country.
So I guess he means social?

[English]

Sorry, yes I meant social.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Greece also has a long socialist and communist tradition.  Like half the country.
So I guess he means social?

Must do... I know Eastern European politics quite well... if you're looking at economic issues, Poland is waaaaay to the Czech Republic' left.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Sorry, yes I meant social.

Ah... makes sense now.
Most of Russia is more socially conservative than Poland, BTW

[Bono]

Sorry, yes I meant social.

Could you get a smaller banner?

[English]

Sorry, yes I meant social.

Could you get a smaller banner?

Er? No!

[English]

Sorry, yes I meant social.

Ah... makes sense now.
Most of Russia is more socially conservative than Poland, BTW

Really? I thought Russia was fairly socially liberal by eastern european standards. I'm only really sure about Estonia and Czech Rep to tell you the truth. Czech Rep seems to be very liberal socially, probably similar to Scandanavia.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Sorry, yes I meant social.

Ah... makes sense now.
Most of Russia is more socially conservative than Poland, BTW

Really? I thought Russia was fairly socially liberal by eastern european standards.

Look how few votes Yabloko get... Russian politics is seriously ed up to tell the truth... but the Commies, the "Liberal Democrats" (actually Nazis), most of the Independents, pretty much all of Putin's mob (in the Mafia sense) etc, etc are very socially conservative.
Seriously messed up country.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The Greater Prague area is socially liberal, but the old mining areas and the backwoods tend to be full of socially conservative Commies (note: unlike the rest of Eastern Europe these don't even pretend to be "Reformed"... Oh they've been riding a wave of rural discontent recently).

[Huckleberry Finn]

Western

Netherlands
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Finland
Iceland
Germany
Britain
France
Luxembourg
Italy
Spain
Austria
Switzerland
Creece
Cypros
Portugal
Ireland
Malta

The big question is how important impact we give to anti-immigration attitude? Many liberal countries like Norway, Denmark and Netherlands have a significant anti-immigration movement, but some like Sweden or Finland haven't.

Maybe I should remake my list.

Sweden
Finland
Iceland
Britain
Germany
Luxembourg
Spain
Netherlands
Denmark
Norway
Belgium
France
Italy
Switzerland
Austria
Creece
Cypros
Portugal
Ireland
Malta

[Huckleberry Finn]

Western...

Netherlands
Denmark
Sweden
Norway
Finland
Iceland
Germany
Britain
France
Luxembourg
Italy
Spain
Austria
Switzerland
Greece
Cyprus
Portugal
Ireland
Malta

The big question is how important impact we give to anti-immigration attitude? Many liberal countries like Norway, Denmark and Netherlands have a significant anti-immigration movement, but some like Sweden or Finland haven't.

Maybe I should remake my list.

Sweden
Finland
Iceland
Britain
Germany
Luxembourg
Spain
Netherlands
Denmark
Norway
Belgium
France
Italy
Switzerland
Austria
Greece
Cyprus
Portugal
Ireland
Malta

[Brambila]

Based on English's, just editing

Czech Rep,
Estonia,
Slovenia,
Latvia,
Hungary,
Russian Fed,
Belorussia,
Romania,
Yugoslavia,
Croatia,
Bulgaria,
Lithuania,
Macedonia,
Belorussia,
Ukraine,
Bosnia,
Albania,
Slovakia,
Poland.

Slovakia is becoming much more conservative socially, as well as the Ukraine. So I moved them more up. Albania is undoubtedly a culturally conservative country, though many people are not conservative.

Netherlands
Germany
Sweden
Denmark
Finland
Iceland
Norway
France
Switzerland
Britain
Luxembourg
Greece
Austria
Italy
Spain
San Marino
Monaco
Cyprus
Portugal
Ireland
Andorra (It's run partially by the Catholic Church, so duh)
Malta

[English]

Hmm, not sure I would agree with that. Most European nations share a large degree of anti immigrant feeling, even Britain and Spain, which you've ranked fairly highly on the liberal list. Much of it, in Britain at least seems to be aimed at Muslims. Curiously, racism against Blacks in the UK seems to be very low compared to racism against those of Pakistani or Bangladeshi origin. Is that the same in Finland?

[English]

Brambila, Greece is socially much more conservative than Spain. Spain is actually quite socially liberal, probably similar to the UK and France. Albania and Bosnia are Muslim and therefore very conservative. Similarly Lithuania and Poland are staunchly catholic nations. Estonia is easily the most liberal of the Baltic nations.

Ireland is still one of the most conservative, but becoming liberal very quickly. Certainly it's not as conservative socially as Greece.

[freek]

Most European nations share a large degree of anti immigrant feeling, even Britain and Spain, which you've ranked fairly highly on the liberal list. Much of it, in Britain at least seems to be aimed at Muslims. Curiously, racism against Blacks in the UK seems to be very low compared to racism against those of Pakistani or Bangladeshi origin. Is that the same in Finland?

For the Netherlands it is the same as in Britain, I think, although "our" muslims are predominantly from Moroccan and Turkish origin. Racism against blacks was higherin the 1970, when half of Surinam (no exaggeration) moved to the Netherlands. Nowadays it is not so much of a problem anymore. Also extreme rightwing parties focus on muslims.

Antisemitism is increasing however, in the last few years. The reason is the Israel-Palestine conflict. A lot of young muslims identify with the Palestinians and harass jews because of that.

[Huckleberry Finn]

Hmm, not sure I would agree with that. Most European nations share a large degree of anti immigrant feeling, even Britain and Spain, which you've ranked fairly highly on the liberal list. Much of it, in Britain at least seems to be aimed at Muslims. Curiously, racism against Blacks in the UK seems to be very low compared to racism against those of Pakistani or Bangladeshi origin. Is that the same in Finland?

I agree that country can have anti-immigrant feeling without large far right parties. There are a lot of that attitude in Finland and it's especially aimed at Somals and other muslims and Russians. Blacks (excluding Somals) and East Asians are generally more welcomed. Our foreign-born population is still quite small. Only about 150 000 people have foreign origins. It's about 3 percent of the population and it's second-smallest percentage in Western Europe after Iceland.

[Silent Hunter]

Based on who's running the government (This for the EU only) and in no particular order

Conservative
Austria
Cyprus
Denmark
France
Greece
Ireland
Italy
Luxembourg
Malta
Netherlands
Portugal
Slovakia
Slovenia (Rop lost in October, the PM-designate is centre right).

Coalition governments
Estonia
Netherlands

Liberal
Czech Republic
Finland
Germany
Hungary
Lithuania
Poland
Spain
Sweden
UK

Latvia's currently in a state of flux.

[Јas]

Just in general interest, what issues are each of you using to determine where a state falls on this scale?

[Silent Hunter]

I'm using the Beeb's description of political affilation for the governing parties and my own knowledge.

[freek]

Based on who's running the government (This for the EU only) and in no particular order

Conservative

Netherlands


Coalition governments

Netherlands

You mentioned the Dutch twice.   It is a coalition government, with conservative christian democrats, and both the rightwing and leftwing liberal parties.

[Hitchabrut]

Now try putting them in order economically.

[English]

Economically per capita?

OK, from Richest to Poorest....

Monaco
Switzerland
Leichtenstein
San Marino
Iceland
Norway
Luxembourg
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Germany
Belgium
Austria
United Kingdom
France
Italy
Andorra
Ireland
Spain
Portugal
Czech Rep
Malta
Slovenia
Cyprus
Greece
Hungary
Estonia
Latvia
Poland
Croatia
Macedonia
Romania
Lithuania
Slovakia
Bulgaria
Serbia & Montenegro
Russian Fed
Ukraine
Belorus
Albania
Bosnia

Think that's it?

[English]

Now try putting them in order economically.

In terms of economic might the top 5 European powers are...

Germany
United Kingdom
France
Italy
Spain