Amending the Constitution - Senate Powers

[Defarge]

With the Attorney General's assesment, I stand with other members of the Senate in support of Ernest's amendment.  We must put these amendments to the vote now in order to end the two weeks of frustration.

Does the Senate want to include clauses allowing it to:
1. Fund scientific research
2. Provide general foreign aid

I think these would both be good ideas personally (the first certainly)

If the Senates going to bring this to a vote then great.

I would fully support clauses of such a nature.  Given that neither have any real downsides in terms of policy, I present to the Senate the most current version of the Ernest Amendment.

Powers of the Senate and the Regions Amendment

Section 1 - Powers of the Senate
The Senate shall have the power save where limited by other provisions in the Constitution-
Clause 1. To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the Regions of Atlasia and the District of Columbia.
Clause 2. To borrow money on the credit of Atlasia and repay such debts.
Clause 3. To regulate commerce with foreign nations.
Clause 4. To provide an area of Freedom, Security and Justice without internal frontiers, and a single market where competition is free and undistorted.
Clause 5. To establish uniform rules of Naturalization and Alienation, Marriage and Divorce, and Adoption and Emancipation of Minors throughout Atlasia.
Clause 6. To establish uniform laws on the subjects of Bankruptcies, Contracts, and Incorporation throughout Atlasia.
Clause 7. To provide for the Punishment of Fraud in a uniform manner throughout Atlasia.
Clause 8. To establish coin and currency, which shall be the sole legal tender of Atlasia, regulate the value thereof, with respect to other coin and currency.
Clause 9. To fix standards of weights and measures and of such items of commerce as it deems needful throughout Atlasia.
Clause 10. To build or regulate the infrastructure needed for communication and transportation.
Clause 11. To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right throughout Atlasia to their respective Writings and Discoveries for limited Times which shall not be extended once secured.
Clause 12. To promote the Public Health, by the conducting of researches, investigations, experiments, and demonstrations relating to the cause, diagnosis, and treatment of medical disorders and by assisting and fostering such research activities by public and private agencies.
Clause 13. To protect the Public Health and commerce, by providing for the quarantine, vaccination, and treatment of individuals, animals and plants as needed to prevent the spread of contagious diseases.
Clause 14. To promote the distribution of Knowledge of Science and useful Arts, by assisting and fostering persons seeking to be educated, to provide education, or to produce educational materials.
Clause 15. To provide for the humanitarian relief of the distress caused by unpredictable events of natural or man-made origin.
Clause 16. to provide for systems of Insurance and Annuity for Unemployment, Disability, and Retirement.
Clause 17. To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court.
Clause 18. To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations.
Clause 19. To provide for the common defense of Atlasia; and to have the sole Power to declare War upon its enemies.
Clause 20. To raise and support armed forces and to make rules for the government and regulation of the armed forces of Atlasia.
Clause 21. To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions.
Clause 22. To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of Atlasia, reserving to the Regions respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.
Clause 23. To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding twelve nautical miles square) as may, by cession of particular Regions, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of Atlasia, and to be known as the District of Columbia.
Clause 24. To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the Region in which the same shall be, for the provision of military facilities, courthouses, and other needful buildings.
Clause 25. To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over such Territory as may be under the jurisdiction of Atlasia, but are not part of any Region.
Clause 26. To assign duties to the Executive Departments and to create such additional Departments as it may deem necessary.
Clause 27. To Suspend the Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus, and to make provision for its Suspension by the executive when the Senate is not in session, but the Privledge shall be Suspended only when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
Clause 28. To promote and finance scientific research as it sees fit.
Clause 29. To provide general aid to foreign nations as it sees fit.
Clause 30. And to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the powers enumerated in this amendment, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of Atlasia, or in any department or officer thereof.

Section 2 Powers Denied the Senate
Clause 1. No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Clause 2. No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall vary depending upon the Region of which the Person it be laid against shall live.
Clause 3. No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
Clause 4. No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one Region over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one Region, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
Clause 5. No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
Clause 6. No Title of Nobility shall be granted by Atlasia: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Senate, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
Clause 7. No Law requiring any action to be taken or to be not taken by a Region shall be passed, except to preserve the rights of the Senate or of the People enumerated under the Constitution.

Section 3 Powers Denied the Regions
Clause 1. No Region shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation, save that with the Consent of the Senate they may enter into Agreements or Compacts with other Regions for purposes of handling Specific Issues which affect more than one Region but which do not affect Atlasia as a Whole.
Clause 2. No Region may issue Coin or Currency or make any Coin or Currency other than that of Atlasia a legal tender.
Clause 3. No Region may pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts
Clause 4. No Region may grant any Title of Nobility.
Clause 5. No Region shall, without the Consent of the Senate, lay any Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing its inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties, laid by any Region on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of Atlasia; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Control of the Senate.
Clause 6. No Region shall, without the Consent of the Senate, lay any Duty of Tonnage.
Clause 7. No Region shall, without the Consent of the Senate, maintain Armed Forces in time of Peace.
Clause 8. No Region shall, without the Consent of the Senate, enter into any Agreement or Compact with with a foreign Power.

[Peter]

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Promote perhaps?

[Defarge]

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Promote perhaps?

*Grumble grumble grumble*

Fixed.  Thanks

[The Dowager Mod]

27 is still there.

[Defarge]

Section 27 is neccessary towards the security of Atlasia.  Is Section 27 bad?  Yes, no one wants to lose their rights.  But if the security, safety, even the very existance of Atlasia depended upon throwing some people into jail without a trial, then so be it. 

Meanwhile, it will be up to the Senate to use such powers effectively and justly.  With the very socially liberal bent Atlasia has, I highly doubt that such powers will be used unless it is absolutely clear to all parties involved.

[The Dowager Mod]

Then make it harder to do.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

If I may propose a recasting of clauses 28 and 29 to fit the general style of what I wrote before.

Clause 28. To promote Science and the useful Arts by sponsoring researches on diverse subjects.
Clause 29. To promote Comity between Nations by engaging in such activities with other Nations as are of mutual benefit.

If I had my druthers, I also place Clause 28 either before or after Clause 11 and Clause 29 between clauses 18 and 19, as I tried to place somewhat related topics near one another for stylistic reasons, not that it makes any real difference in what powers are granted.

[TeePee4Prez]

Like Bono and TexasGurl, I have a problem with Clause 27 as well.  There should be no suspension of due process under any circumstances.

[Siege40]

Looks pretty good to me.

Siege

[The Dowager Mod]

Unless clause 27 is at least changed so that the senate has a say in a possible suspension of civil libertys, i will not vote for this bill.

[Peter]

Clause 27. To Suspend the Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus, and to make provision for its Suspension by the executive when the Senate is not in session, but the Privledge shall be Suspended only when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

Just to clarify Clause 27 for Texasgurl - when the Senate is in session, then only the Senate may suspend Habeas Corpus. When the Senate is not in session, the executive may suspend Habeas Corpus subject to rules defined by the Senate.

[Siege40]

Looks good Mr. Attorney General.

Siege

[Peter]

I would like this to come to a vote - if only to see it get voted down - now that we have at least some consensus on a version. Hopefully the VP or PPT can open voting.

[JohnFKennedy]

With the Attorney General's assesment, I stand with other members of the Senate in support of Ernest's amendment.  We must put these amendments to the vote now in order to end the two weeks of frustration.

Does the Senate want to include clauses allowing it to:
1. Fund scientific research
2. Provide general foreign aid

I think these would both be good ideas personally (the first certainly)

If the Senates going to bring this to a vote then great.

I would fully support clauses of such a nature.  Given that neither have any real downsides in terms of policy, I present to the Senate the most current version of the Ernest Amendment.

Powers of the Senate and the Regions Amendment

Section 1 - Powers of the Senate
The Senate shall have the power save where limited by other provisions in the Constitution-
Clause 1. To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the Regions of Atlasia and the District of Columbia.
Clause 2. To borrow money on the credit of Atlasia and repay such debts.
Clause 3. To regulate commerce with foreign nations.
Clause 4. To provide an area of Freedom, Security and Justice without internal frontiers, and a single market where competition is free and undistorted.
Clause 5. To establish uniform rules of Naturalization and Alienation, Marriage and Divorce, and Adoption and Emancipation of Minors throughout Atlasia.
Clause 6. To establish uniform laws on the subjects of Bankruptcies, Contracts, and Incorporation throughout Atlasia.
Clause 7. To provide for the Punishment of Fraud in a uniform manner throughout Atlasia.
Clause 8. To establish coin and currency, which shall be the sole legal tender of Atlasia, regulate the value thereof, with respect to other coin and currency.
Clause 9. To fix standards of weights and measures and of such items of commerce as it deems needful throughout Atlasia.
Clause 10. To build or regulate the infrastructure needed for communication and transportation.
Clause 11. To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right throughout Atlasia to their respective Writings and Discoveries for limited Times which shall not be extended once secured.
Clause 12. To promote Science and the useful Arts by sponsoring researches on diverse subjects.
Clause 13. To promote the Public Health, by the conducting of researches, investigations, experiments, and demonstrations relating to the cause, diagnosis, and treatment of medical disorders and by assisting and fostering such research activities by public and private agencies.
Clause 14. To protect the Public Health and commerce, by providing for the quarantine, vaccination, and treatment of individuals, animals and plants as needed to prevent the spread of contagious diseases.
Clause 15. To promote the distribution of Knowledge of Science and useful Arts, by assisting and fostering persons seeking to be educated, to provide education, or to produce educational materials.
Clause 16. To provide for the humanitarian relief of the distress caused by unpredictable events of natural or man-made origin.
Clause 17. to provide for systems of Insurance and Annuity for Unemployment, Disability, and Retirement.
Clause 18. To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court.
Clause 19. To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations.
Clause 20. To promote Comity between Nations by engaging in such activities with other Nations as are of mutual benefit.
Clause 21. To provide for the common defense of Atlasia; and to have the sole Power to declare War upon its enemies.
Clause 22. To raise and support armed forces and to make rules for the government and regulation of the armed forces of Atlasia.
Clause 23. To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions.
Clause 24. To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of Atlasia, reserving to the Regions respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.
Clause 25. To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding twelve nautical miles square) as may, by cession of particular Regions, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of Atlasia, and to be known as the District of Columbia.
Clause 26. To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the Region in which the same shall be, for the provision of military facilities, courthouses, and other needful buildings.
Clause 27. To exercise exclusive legislation, in all cases whatsoever, over such Territory as may be under the jurisdiction of Atlasia, but are not part of any Region.
Clause 28. To assign duties to the Executive Departments and to create such additional Departments as it may deem necessary.
Clause 29. To Suspend the Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus, and to make provision for its Suspension by the executive when the Senate is not in session, but the Privledge shall be Suspended only when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
Clause 30. And to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the powers enumerated in this amendment, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of Atlasia, or in any department or officer thereof.

Section 2 Powers Denied the Senate
Clause 1. No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Clause 2. No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall vary depending upon the Region of which the Person it be laid against shall live.
Clause 3. No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.
Clause 4. No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one Region over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one Region, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
Clause 5. No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
Clause 6. No Title of Nobility shall be granted by Atlasia: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Senate, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
Clause 7. No Law requiring any action to be taken or to be not taken by a Region shall be passed, except to preserve the rights of the Senate or of the People enumerated under the Constitution.

Section 3 Powers Denied the Regions
Clause 1. No Region shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation, save that with the Consent of the Senate they may enter into Agreements or Compacts with other Regions for purposes of handling Specific Issues which affect more than one Region but which do not affect Atlasia as a Whole.
Clause 2. No Region may issue Coin or Currency or make any Coin or Currency other than that of Atlasia a legal tender.
Clause 3. No Region may pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts
Clause 4. No Region may grant any Title of Nobility.
Clause 5. No Region shall, without the Consent of the Senate, lay any Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing its inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties, laid by any Region on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of Atlasia; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Control of the Senate.
Clause 6. No Region shall, without the Consent of the Senate, lay any Duty of Tonnage.
Clause 7. No Region shall, without the Consent of the Senate, maintain Armed Forces in time of Peace.
Clause 8. No Region shall, without the Consent of the Senate, enter into any Agreement or Compact with with a foreign Power.

This looks good to me, the only thing I might point out is that the District of Columbia is a part of the Mid-Eastern Region so I don't see the point in mentioning it independently in Clause 1 of Senate Powers.

I have altered it slightly with the changes that Ernest requested as Peter Bell and myself agree they fit more with the style of the rest of the document.

Other than the point of the Clause 1 of Senate Powers, I see nothing that needs changing, I request a statement by Ernest or Peter Bell on whether Clause 1 could potentially create any confusions in future as they have both shown legal expertise.

This crisis has gone on long enough, hopefully following a statement by Peter Bell or Ernest regarding the issue I have raised and any other issues which other Senators believe need addressing I will call a vote on this document tomorrow.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

DC has a hodgepodge status under the existing constitution.  For purposes of Region alignment it clearly is considered to be something other than a State, yet in all other respects it clearly is treated as a State.  One possible interpretation is that when Atlasia was created, DC returned to its original organic status and as such Nyman is now a city in the Mideast Region where the Atlasian government now meets but does not exercise sole sovereignity, much as the US government did in New York and Philadelphia before finally moving to the new built city on the Potomac.  While the simplest solution would no doubt be for the Mideast to receed DC to the Federal government so that DC's local government would once again be under the total control of Congress (BWAH HAH HAH HAH!  Sorry, it's been far too long since I had an opportunity to give a suitably sinister laugh.)  It would not be the only one.  Congress could choose to accept its lack of complete sovereignity over where it meets or it could choose to relocate the capital elsewhere than Nyman.

However, save for the fact that Clause 25 explicitly grants the authority for parts of an existing Region to be ceded to the sole authority of Congress for the purpose of being the capital, there is nothing that Clause 25 does that Clause 27 does not do as well.  Omitting Clause 25 for now and leaving the question of what exactly is the status of Nyman, DC for later determination does not strike me as unreasonable if that clause is troublesome.

[Peter]

My only reservation here is that if the Capital was to be relocated to some place that was seceded from Idaho, say, then under the Constitution it would be called the District of Colombia, and then we would have two DCs, which could create a degree of unnecessary confusion. Obviously the easiest solution is if they are the same place.

[StevenNick]

I move to amend the proposed constitutional amendment by removing clauses 12, 14, 16, and 28.

I also move that the following phrase from Clause 29 be removed: "and to make provision for its suspension by the executive when the senate is not in session..."

[JohnFKennedy]

I move to amend the proposed constitutional amendment by removing clauses 12, 14, 16, and 28.

I also move that the following phrase from Clause 27 be removed: "and to make provision for its suspension by the executive when the senate is not in session..."

(NOTE: Your removal of phrase is from 29 not 27

Very well, we shall vote on the amendments you propose separately, a simple majority is necessary.

First amendment:

Strike Clause 12 (Clause 12. To promote Science and the useful Arts by sponsoring researches on diverse subjects.)

Second amendment:

Strike Clause 14 (Clause 14. To protect the Public Health and commerce, by providing for the quarantine, vaccination, and treatment of individuals, animals and plants as needed to prevent the spread of contagious diseases.)

Third amendment:

Strike Clause 16 (Clause 16. To provide for the humanitarian relief of the distress caused by unpredictable events of natural or man-made origin.)

Fourth amendment:

Strike Clause 28 (Clause 28. To assign duties to the Executive Departments and to create such additional Departments as it may deem necessary.)

Fifth amendment:

Removal of the phrase "and to make provision for its suspension by the executive when the senate is not in session..." from Clause 29 (Clause 29. To Suspend the Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus, and to make provision for its Suspension by the executive when the Senate is not in session, but the Privledge shall be Suspended only when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

All Senators please vote Yea, Nay or abstain on the five proposed amendments.

[JohnFKennedy]

Nay on the first
Nay on the second
Nay on the third
Abstain on the fourth
Abstain on the fifth

[StevenNick]

Yea on the first.
Yea on the second.
Yea on the third.
Yea on the fourth.
Yea on the fifth.

[TeePee4Prez]

Nay on first
Nay on second
Nay on third
Nay on fourth
Abstain on fifth

[The Dowager Mod]

Nay
Nay
Nay
Nay
Abstain

[Defarge]

Nay on the First
Nay on the Second
Nay on the Third
Nay on the Fourth
Abstain on the Fifth

[Bono]

Yea on the first.
Yea on the second.
Yea on the third.
Abstain on fourth.
Abstain on fifth because the evil is still there. Soon, there will be laws deeming possessing a package of Xanax is a threath to national security.

[Siege40]

Nay on First.
Nay on Second.
Nay on Third.
Nay on Fourth.
Abstain on Fifth.

Siege