Has America peaked?

[Brutus]

Open-ended question:
Are America's best days yet ahead, or have we peaked?

[John Dibble]

Probably not. We may be considered in a slump right now, but I say with some hard work and ingenuity we will continue to prosper.

[Platypus]

you never know when you're at the peak; only at the base.

[angus]

I used to always think that when I was a kid.  What with Vietnam, watergate, and my history professors telling us, correctly, that we were the first generation, ever, of Americans that should not expect to have it "better than our parents did."

Not so sure, anymore.  Not because I doubt any of those things, but because so many measures are relative.  We live on a planet of 6 billion plus, and a limited food supply.  So, in terms of great imperialism, growing fortunes, etc., sure it's tougher to get ahead.  No new lands to claim, no new peoples to discover and subjugate, but every nation in the world will, no doubt, feel the same crunch, the same pressures, so, on a relative scale, we are likely to continue pre-eminence for some time.  Again, only till the Chinese realize their potential due to their sheer numbers.  But that's a long way off.  I think our situation, as a nation, will continue to improve, relative to mean measures such as aggregate GDP, military force, ability to affect cultural change through our sheer volume of movies, pornography, video games, fast food, etc. 

On balance, I feel as though we haven't peaked in a hegemonic sense, then.

In a moral sense?  Sure we have.  Students cheat on tests without giving it a second thought.  We're sending people to overcrowded prisons for life for minor offenses.  People steal, rape, plunder.  Drug use is up among women (though down slightly among men).  But moral decay is a whole different issue, as I read the question.  (or is it?  The fall of Rome is often described in terms of decadence...  who knows?  Hindsight is 20.20 ain't it?)

[PBrunsel]

"Those who say America's best days are behind them are looking the wrong way."
- George H.W. Bush

"...I know for America there will always be a bright dawn aheas."
- Ronald Reagan

[opebo]

Yes.  There is a pernicious influence in the body politic.

[The Duke]

In the late 70s people asked this smae wuestion.  We've done okay since then.  If Rome had declined at the rate we've gone since that time, I'd be typing in Latin right now.

[A18]

My gut tells me we have a lot of dark days ahead, and a lot of bright ones as well.

[True Democrat]

I used to always think that when I was a kid. What with Vietnam, watergate, and my history professors telling us, correctly, that we were the first generation, ever, of Americans that should not expect to have it "better than our parents did."

Not so sure, anymore. Not because I doubt any of those things, but because so many measures are relative. We live on a planet of 6 billion plus, and a limited food supply. So, in terms of great imperialism, growing fortunes, etc., sure it's tougher to get ahead. No new lands to claim, no new peoples to discover and subjugate, but every nation in the world will, no doubt, feel the same crunch, the same pressures, so, on a relative scale, we are likely to continue pre-eminence for some time. Again, only till the Chinese realize their potential due to their sheer numbers. But that's a long way off. I think our situation, as a nation, will continue to improve, relative to mean measures such as aggregate GDP, military force, ability to affect cultural change through our sheer volume of movies, pornography, video games, fast food, etc.

On balance, I feel as though we haven't peaked in a hegemonic sense, then.

In a moral sense? Sure we have. Students cheat on tests without giving it a second thought. We're sending people to overcrowded prisons for life for minor offenses. People steal, rape, plunder. Drug use is up among women (though down slightly among men). But moral decay is a whole different issue, as I read the question. (or is it? The fall of Rome is often described in terms of decadence... who knows? Hindsight is 20.20 ain't it?)

I disagree that we've peaked on a moral level.  Even though the Christian Right's voice is growing, people who claim not have a religion is growing faster.

On an overall level, I think Clinton's term might have been the peak, but maybe not.  If Bush's policies continue, we are on a downfall.

[Colin]

Well Rome lasted 1000 years ( more if you count Byzantium) and the British Empire lasted at least 300 I still think we have a good ways to go before we see our final hour. What I do think will happen though, Hugh will like this, is that Australia will take over the reigns when America is finished. I see in Australia many of the same qualities Toquerville saw in America when he travelled the nation in the 1830s. I think America will have a good long run and then, in my mind, Australia will be able to assert itself upon the world stage.

[Beet]

I do not see America peaking unless either terrorists manage to destroy a major city with nuclear weapons, so that international financial capital moves elsewhere, or, oil prices gradually become expensive enough so that human civilization as a whole peaks. Or, until we destroy each other.

[opebo]

Depends from who's perspective you're analysing it.  From the perspective of the working class, it peaked in 1973.  Since then it has done reasonably well, but that has only benefited the top 5%.

That date also represents a social and intellectual peak as well - significantly, Roe V. Wade was decided that year.

[A18]

America peaked when Opebo left.

[Beet]

Depends from who's perspective you're analysing it.  From the perspective of the working class, it peaked in 1973.  Since then it has done reasonably well, but that has only benefited the top 5%.

That date also represents a social and intellectual peak as well - significantly, Roe V. Wade was decided that year.

1973 is a remarkable year. For one, it was the first full year where no person had landed on the moon since 1968, the beginnig of a 31-year drought.

But more importantly, if you look at all the growth rates for all the countries in the world and divide it between 1945 to 1973 and any significant period of time since 1973, even the late 1990s, you will find that the growth rates pre-1973 were higher, often significantly higher. You will also generally find that the productivity growth rates were higher pre-1973, despite greater job security and income equality, which is now generally associated with lackluster growth.

[angus]

Depends from who's perspective you're analysing it.  From the perspective of the working class, it peaked in 1973.  Since then it has done reasonably well, but that has only benefited the top 5%.

That date also represents a social and intellectual peak as well - significantly, Roe V. Wade was decided that year.

1973 is a remarkable year. For one, it was the first full year where no person had landed on the moon since 1968, the beginnig of a 31-year drought.

But more importantly, if you look at all the growth rates for all the countries in the world and divide it between 1945 to 1973 and any significant period of time since 1973, even the late 1990s, you will find that the growth rates pre-1973 were higher, often significantly higher. You will also generally find that the productivity growth rates were higher pre-1973, despite greater job security and income equality, which is now generally associated with lackluster growth.

beet and opebo, good points all.

Also, it was the Year of the Ox (or 牛).  The Ox is stubborn and unyielding, and his very presence stifles productivity.  And yet they are patient, speak little, and inspire confidence in others.  Oxen never stray from their chosen paths.  Thus, one might have predicted the absence of manned flights to the moon and the lackluster growth.  The same pedestrianism can be predicted for 1985, 1997, and 2009 (presumably the year Hillary Clinton will take the Oath of Office).

Famous Oxen include:

Waren Beatty, Bill Cosby, Adolf Hitler, Madeleine Albright, Margaret Thatcher, Bruce Springsteen, Vincent Van Gogh, Jon  Bon Jovi, Charlie Chaplin, Aristotle, Robert Kennedy, Dustin Hoffman, Richard Burton, Kate Moss, Meg Ryan, George Clooney, Sammy Davis Jr., Anthony Hopkins, Saddam Hussein, Heather Locklear, Eddie Murphy, Jane Fonda, Princess Diana, Meryl Streep, Sigorney Weaver, Gerard Ford, Walt Disney, Paul Newman, and Jack Nicholson.

[ilikeverin]

Depends from who's perspective you're analysing it. From the perspective of the working class, it peaked in 1973. Since then it has done reasonably well, but that has only benefited the top 5%.

That date also represents a social and intellectual peak as well - significantly, Roe V. Wade was decided that year.

1973 is a remarkable year. For one, it was the first full year where no person had landed on the moon since 1968, the beginnig of a 31-year drought.

But more importantly, if you look at all the growth rates for all the countries in the world and divide it between 1945 to 1973 and any significant period of time since 1973, even the late 1990s, you will find that the growth rates pre-1973 were higher, often significantly higher. You will also generally find that the productivity growth rates were higher pre-1973, despite greater job security and income equality, which is now generally associated with lackluster growth.

beet and opebo, good points all.

Also, it was the Year of the Ox (or 牛). The Ox is stubborn and unyielding, and his very presence stifles productivity. And yet they are patient, speak little, and inspire confidence in others. Oxen never stray from their chosen paths. Thus, one might have predicted the absence of manned flights to the moon and the lackluster growth. The same pedestrianism can be predicted for 1985, 1997, and 2009 (presumably the year Hillary Clinton will take the Oath of Office).

Famous Oxen include:

Waren Beatty, Bill Cosby, Adolf Hitler, Madeleine Albright, Margaret Thatcher, Bruce Springsteen, Vincent Van Gogh, Jon Bon Jovi, Charlie Chaplin, Aristotle, Robert Kennedy, Dustin Hoffman, Richard Burton, Kate Moss, Meg Ryan, George Clooney, Sammy Davis Jr., Anthony Hopkins, Saddam Hussein, Heather Locklear, Eddie Murphy, Jane Fonda, Princess Diana, Meryl Streep, Sigorney Weaver, Gerard Ford, Walt Disney, Paul Newman, and Jack Nicholson.

No, silly, we must look at Western astrology and see that Saturn was in Gemini, stifling communication and illogical things, and besides, Pluto and Uranus were in Libra so people were more interested in breaking down old systems of marriage and partnership anyway

()

[angus]

still, Uranus in Libra is better than a Scorpion in Uranus 

[ilikeverin]

still, Uranus in Libra is better than a Scorpion in Uranus

ROFL!

[Citizen James]

Not at all, though we may be in a heck of a dip right now.  We've had them before, the depression in the 30's, the malaise of the 70's... Perhaps we have to be reminded once in a while so we don't take our liberties and prosperity for granted.

[Platypus]

Colin-we don't have enough room for enough people to be the next america; we're mainly desert. Add Global Warming making even more desert and getting rid of all our drinking water, and we probably couldn't sustain more then about another 10 million peaople, despite our size :S

The next big thing will be China, but I reckon it'll be co-best thing, with the USA, if you know what I mean :S

[Gustaf]

Certainly not on absolute terms, might have soon in relative terms, at least relative to China.

But the strength of the US lies in your focus on freedom and personal responsibility as the foundations of society. This means that the country changes naturally with time, allowing it to keep up with progress.

[angus]

yes, learn chinese.  it's a bitch, so start young if you can.

[The Dowager Mod]

America "peaked" in the late '40s and '50s.

[Redefeatbush04]

you never know when you're at the peak; only at the base.

well said

[JNB]

 The US peaked in the early 60s, the combination of the "Great Scoiety" dramatic cultureal changes in the late 60s and a insane "free trade" policy that started to be implemented in the late 70s makes this formerly great nation a walking corprse that one day will collapse in a shallow ditch.