Opinion of Christine O'Donnell

[Ebowed]

Better yet, Angus, please don't. Don't give Opedo the time of day.

I don't know about anyone else, but I likewise associate disliking Ms. O'Donnell with pedophilia.

P.S.: A+ for effort.

[opebo]

definitely a freedom fighter.

Please explain why you think this.

Better yet, Angus, please don't. Don't give Opedo the time of day.

What's with all the personal attacks?  You seem obsessed.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

An amazingly skilled troll.  VanderBlubb would be jealous.

You know, he hasn't posted recently...

[Ebowed]

An amazingly skilled troll.  VanderBlubb would be jealous.

You know, he hasn't posted recently...

I'll be on the look out for any off-hand O'Donnell rants about Bill Ayers being the true author of Dreams from My Father.

[Storebought]

An amazingly skilled troll. 

I hate blind quotes, but this seems the most accurate.

[angus]

definitely a freedom fighter.

Please explain why you think this.

I don't usually vote in these FF/HP polls, because few people are fall into either of those categories, although I often post in them my opinion.  But she is really a modern-day freedom fighter if ever there was one.  For example, she took on the GOP establishment, and won.  And even after every opinion writer mocks her, she comes out and gives speeches and says she's a serious campaigner, even in the face of intra-party chastisement.  But I think she was a freedom fighter long before this.  She has spoken out about teaching evolution in public schools, calling it unsubstantiated, and she has even spoken out against masturbation, saying it's selfish to your partner and sinful.  I think that takes huge balls.  I think she's not afraid of opposition, and not afraid to express her views, and she has an agenda that she thinks will help the people and she's not afraid to push it in the face of adversity.  So she's a fighter for her brand of freedom, and she probably has more courage than many politicians do. 

[Beet]

A lot of conservative institutes are founded to subsidize social conservatives who say things like evolution in public schools is bad and masturbation is bad. And even if you think it took particular courage to say these things before (which I disagree), it certainly takes no courage to be the recipient of the national attention and millions of dollars that she has received in the past few weeks. Opinion writers may mock her, but I don't. I took her seriously from the night she won the primary. Anyway, win or lose she is set for life. $$$ I wish I were her.

[Vepres]

a religious devotion to atheism

DOES NOT COMPUTE

What on earth do you mean?  A religious devotion to atheism would merely entail the strict adherence to the doctrines outlined by atheist prophets in their holy scriptures.

They are just like everyone else, Joe.  You can't just claim to not be religious!

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe? That attitude of yours is dogma, pure and simple.

(BTW, I'm agnostic)

[angus]

(which I disagree),

Seriously?  Don't you remember when you were in college?  I do.  Can you imagine some chick doing an on-line interview in which she said how masturbation is sinful and selfish?  Or saying publicly that evolution is a myth?  She'd be made fun of.  In the hallways.  In the dorm.  At parties.  In class, in those few minutes before the professor arrives and everybody's loud and obnoxious.  But she stands up to the adversity.  I know times have changed--Virginity pledges, attacking evolutionary theory, getting your lip pierced, and getting tattooed were things you just didn't see back when I was in college, but they all seem common and socially acceptable now--but times haven't changed that much.  Folks are still basically clickish and have a herd mentality.  I think it takes huge balls to come out and say things like that publicly.  So, if she really believes what she says--and I think she does--then she's courageous.  Additionally, sticking to her guns when the GOP establishment was telling her to crawl under a rock requires tenacity and courage.

[Vepres]

a religious devotion to atheism

DOES NOT COMPUTE

What on earth do you mean?  A religious devotion to atheism would merely entail the strict adherence to the doctrines outlined by atheist prophets in their holy scriptures.

They are just like everyone else, Joe.  You can't just claim to not be religious!

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe? That attitude of yours is dogma, pure and simple.

(BTW, I'm agnostic)

I'm not defending evolution deniers or anything, however.

[Ebowed]

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe? That attitude of yours is dogma, pure and simple.

I don't agree that theists are inherently dumb, though I do not subscribe to that particular philosophy.  I simply question how you could refer to atheism as a religion and/or dogma.  For that matter, not all theists are necessarily religious either.

[Beet]

(which I disagree),

Seriously?  Don't you remember when you were in college?  I do.  Can you imagine some chick doing an on-line interview in which she said how masturbation is sinful and selfish?  Or saying publicly that evolution is a myth?  She'd be made fun of.  In the hallways.  In the dorm.  At parties.  In class, in those few minutes before the professor arrives and everybody's loud and obnoxious.  But she stands up to the adversity.  I know times have changed--Virginity pledges, attacking evolutionary theory, getting your lip pierced, and getting tattooed were things you just didn't see back when I was in college, but they all seem common and socially acceptable now--but times haven't changed that much.  Folks are still basically clickish and have a herd mentality.  I think it takes huge balls to come out and say things like that publicly.  So, if she really believes what she says--and I think she does--then she's courageous.  Additionally, sticking to her guns when the GOP establishment was telling her to crawl under a rock requires tenacity and courage.

I remember college very well, and that isn't an accurate description of the atmosphere I remember-- there were a broad range of opinions and even very different opinions were generally dealt with respectfully. The Israel Palestinian crisis and the Iraq war both happened when I was in college. Social ostracization for expressing an opinion was never an issue because people with polar opposite social views partied together anyway, and besides, for every opinion there was a group of like minded students. Perhaps you and Christine were in college during a more PC time. Anyway it should be noted that the masturbation interview was 3 years after she dropped out of Farleigh Dickson and she was already working for the RNC. By that time the Christian Right was a huge force in American politics and it certainly wouldn't have been a lonely crusade-- if not a winning one.

[angus]

it certainly wouldn't have been a lonely crusade-- if not a winning one.

nonsense.  I guess I'm just not buying that.  Consider the evidence all around you.  Folks in this forum (a relatively mild-mannered lot) are excoriating her.  And folks in the popular media (a not-so-mild-mannered lot) are also having fun with the crusade.  I have no doubt that when she was making the statements she was being picked on, and would also have been picked on by your classmates in your school.  Clearly she's up against the machine, being ridiculed, no less so now for taking on the GOP establishment, than 20 years ago for making the anti-masturbation campaign. Huge balls, she has.

[Earth]

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe?

Why would the possibility be considered with the obvious lack of evidence?

[??????????]

Our definitions of evidence may be very different.

[Franzl]

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe? That attitude of yours is dogma, pure and simple.

(BTW, I'm agnostic)

Wouldn't you agree the burden of proof is on someone making a claim like that?

[Alcon]

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe? That attitude of yours is dogma, pure and simple.

Even if we accept that there is a lack of belief against God creating the universe (not sure what that would mean formally), shouldn't a belief require affirmative proof, not just a lack of proof that it doesn't?  If I flip a random coin, I don't have any "proof" that it will end up heads, but that doesn't make it rational to believe conclusively that it will end up tails.  There's nothing "dogmatic" about any of this.  Not even the rabid "New Atheism" crowd claims that there isn't the possibility of the existence of a God.  They just happen to see theism as akin to believing that the Easter Bunny exists.  No one can claim complete refutation of the existence of a metaphysical entity unless they claim they can objectively know their own omniscience.

Besides, you can't simultaneously argue that you're defending couching belief in metaphysical intangibles and then say you aren't defending "evolution deniers."  Yes, you are.

[??????????]

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe? That attitude of yours is dogma, pure and simple.

(BTW, I'm agnostic)

Wouldn't you agree the burden of proof is on someone making a claim like that?

I think the person making the claim of something coming from nothing has more of the burden of proof on them.

[Associate Justice PiT]

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe? That attitude of yours is dogma, pure and simple.

(BTW, I'm agnostic)

Wouldn't you agree the burden of proof is on someone making a claim like that?

I think the person making the claim of something coming from nothing has more of the burden of proof on them.

     Except nobody is making that claim. I wonder when Derek's unorthodox definition of God became all the rage.

[Franzl]

So, somebody believing in God is just dumb, despite no evidence to say that a God didn't create the universe? That attitude of yours is dogma, pure and simple.

(BTW, I'm agnostic)

Wouldn't you agree the burden of proof is on someone making a claim like that?

I think the person making the claim of something coming from nothing has more of the burden of proof on them.

But believing that it's impossible that the world came from "nothing" doesn't automatically translate to believing in "God". That seems illogical. Christians (or people of any other religion) make specific claims. Why shouldn't it be their job to try and provide proof for their claims?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I can't believe this is the same Franzl who once told me "Go f**k yourself" (uncensored at the time) for making anti-Catholic comments.

[Franzl]

I can't believe this is the same Franzl who once told me "Go f**k yourself" (uncensored at the time) for making anti-Catholic comments.

How is this relevant? Now I'll readily admit I was religious (at least more religious) at one point....but what does that have to do with going after you for something you said about Catholics? I don't know exactly what you said, but it's not likely that it a.) made a lot of sense or b.) wasn't offensive in some way or another

[Joe Republic]

I can't believe this is the same Franzl who once told me "Go f**k yourself" (uncensored at the time) for making anti-Catholic comments.

In fairness, it is often exceedingly difficult for anybody to converse with you and restrain the desire to tell you to stick your own penis into your anus, at the same time.

[Earth]

Our definitions of evidence may be very different.

One of us is wrong then. The definition of evidence is pretty clear.

I think the person making the claim of something coming from nothing has more of the burden of proof on them.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Have you heard of Occam's Razor?

[??????????]

Claiming that life sprang from pond scum is more extraordinary then divine intervention.