If . . . . .

[A18]

Okay everyone. Here's what's better about the United States.

Better pay, MUCH longer vacations, fewer work hours, better medical care, better food, better transportation options, stronger currency, better and more available education, more personal freedoms.

Anyone can say that. I'm looking for hard facts, or at least a subjective explanation.

[opebo]

Anyone can say that. I'm looking for hard facts, or at least a subjective explanation.

OK - they get longer vacations - the standard is 6 weeks, rising to 8 once you've been on the job a while, while in America the standard is a ridiculous TWO weeks!

The average hours worked per year is several  hundred lower than in the US:  http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lab_hou_wor

Medical care is available to all, whereas it is not available to all in the US.  Things like obesity and infant mortality are much worse here.

The better food thing is subjective, but anyone who's been to ANY other country can tell you the US has horrible food.

They have very convenient public transportation, we largely do not.

Their currency is stronger - going from $.80 to $1.30 in just the last four years.  Their spending power when they travel dwarfs ours.

College education is free in most European countries.

And lastly, drug use and prostitution is tolerated in most European countries, greatly increasing personal freedoms and the quality of life.

All in all, the comparison is glaringly divergent.

[A18]

It depends who you are. Obviously labor is going to be better off in socialist Europe.

[Shira]

Still waiting for you to back up your claim that European quality of life is better.

"Quality of life" by itself is an abstract term, but there are some measurable parameters that are good indicators to "quality of life".
The most significant of these parameters is the one that I have mentioned several times - Life Expectancy.
Life expectancy in European countries (but not the former Communist countries) is between one to four years longer than in the US.
This is a very sever finding.

[A18]

Life expectancy is utterly meaningless.

[opebo]

It depends who you are. Obviously labor is going to be better off in socialist Europe.

Labor is approximately 98% of the population.  And unless you have a couple of million coming upon reaching Man's Estate, labor is going to be YOU, Philip.

[Shira]

It depends who you are. Obviously labor is going to be better off in socialist Europe.

FYI: In France, Italy, Denmark, Greece the Socialist parties are in the opposition

[A18]

Leave myself to me. You're having a hard enough time making your life worth something.

Management and labor aren't the only two categories of people.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Relative term. To me, the Democrats are socialist.

[Shira]

Life expectancy is utterly meaningless.

Why?
Because the US numbers are not good?

It the key number to evaluate how advanced and modern a country is.

[A18]

The key to how advanced and modern a country is is how advanced and modern a country is.

[Shira]

The key to how advanced and modern a country is is how advanced and modern a country is.

Try to be less childish.

[opebo]

Leave myself to me. You're having a hard enough time making your life worth something.

Management and labor aren't the only two categories of people.

No, the only two categories are owners and labour.  'Management' is part of labour.

[A18]

So a computer programer is 'labor' in Opebo world?

Shira -- try to explain HOW life expectancy has anything to do with how advanced a country is

[opebo]

So a computer programer is 'labor' in Opebo world?

Yes.  And to any economist. 

[opebo]

Here's an interesting article on American's abominable lack of vacation time.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3081147/

[A18]

I'm talking about labor as in McDonalds. Not computer programming, which offers a much higher quality of life.

[opebo]

I'm talking about labor as in McDonalds. Not computer programming, which offers a much higher quality of life.

Labor is when you work for a living - for pay in the form of wages, salary, or commission.   All workers, whether computer programmer or WaMart slug, share the same interests and position in the system, vis-a-vis the Owners.

[J. J.]

How can you possibly regard life expectency as a sign of advancement.  A portion of it is genetic and European contries tend to be genetically homogenous.

[opebo]

How can you possibly regard life expectency as a sign of advancement.  A portion of it is genetic and European contries tend to be genetically homogenous.

Yes, America has many races, and the non-white ones tend not to have any medical care.

[A18]

The point is, people working at a European McDonalds are probably better off. Europe's computer programmers, on the other hand, are not - it varies from skill level to skill level, company to company.

Most people don't spend their life as a Burger King employee.

[opebo]

The point is, people working at a European McDonalds are probably better off. Europe's computer programmers, on the other hand, are not - it varies from skill level to skill level, company to company.

Most people don't spend their life as a Burger King employee.

The real difference is that Capital does much, much better in the US. 

And yes, lots of people spend their life at the lower levels of employment - and in future many more will.  I hate to break it to you, but the US is not a nation of computer programmers.

[A18]

Yes, that's worth pointing out because computer programmer is absolutely the only type of job that pays better than McDonalds.

[J. J.]

How can you possibly regard life expectency as a sign of advancement.  A portion of it is genetic and European contries tend to be genetically homogenous.

Yes, America has many races, and the non-white ones tend not to have any medical care.

Actually, that is not rally the case. 

You are comparing largely mono-ethnic societies with multi-ethnic ones.  Then you are suggesting that the mono-ethnic societies, the ones with all the white people with it, as "better." 

Bopeepo, isn't your and Shira's position ultimately, the country's that are "better" have more white people in them?

[The Vorlon]

If things were different.....
.....they wouldn't be the same"

Yogi Berri

[ATFFL]

If things were different.....
.....they wouldn't be the same"

Yogi Berri

A truly wise man that Yogi.

(Psst.  His last name is usually spelled Berra)