Are presidential candidates incapable of using private planes?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

?

[Progressive]

Lol what?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Lol what?

pbrower keeps saying candidates can't run a campaign unless they live near a major air hub. So apparently presidential candidates can't ever set up an HQ in a state other than the one they live in, and can't use private planes and need to use the same airlines everyone else does.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     This air hub theory has been torn asunder repeatedly almost from the minute it was first advanced. Calling out pbrower won't make a difference.

[J. J.]

Lol what?

pbrower keeps saying candidates can't run a campaign unless they live near a major air hub. So apparently presidential candidates can't ever set up an HQ in a state other than the one they live in, and can't use private planes and need to use the same airlines everyone else does.

The point might be the cost.  It would be a huge bite out of campaign funds, I think counted against spending limits, and if someone provides one, it is considered a campaign contribution.

[Mr. Morden]

The point might be the cost.  It would be a huge bite out of campaign funds, I think counted against spending limits, and if someone provides one, it is considered a campaign contribution.

I don't think it's *that* expensive, when compared with other expenditures incurred by the campaign.  And even if it is, they largely do it anyway.  Certainly in the general election, the major party candidates are *not* flying commercial.  In the primaries, I think only the candidates who are operating on a shoestring (like say, Tom Tancredo and the early part of the Huckabee campaign) do it.  The campaigns with money fly private planes.  McCain actually started flying commercial for a while in the summer of 2007, when his campaign was imploding and it went broke.

[The Mikado]

As if Thune or Barbour wouldn't just run out of DC.

[Bo]

Yes. They don't want to compromise their security.

[pbrower2a]

The candidate can use private aircraft all that he wants, as can staff. But delivering and setting up sound systems is prohibitively expensive by private plane. Publicists who deal with local media obviously can't travel with the Presidential candidate. Someone has to tell the news managers of radio and television stations and the political editors of newspapers that Candidate X will be there, and that is probably most reliably done in person. As for getting campaign literature there... such items of low value-added must often be produced locally and trucked in.

It's not the candidate -- it's staff who must fly commercially; equipment, props, and such stuff as campaign literature must often be trucked in. Any logistic failure can be a political disaster.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I always liked Carter's campaign plane, Peanut One.

[Mr. Morden]

Someone has to tell the news managers of radio and television stations and the political editors of newspapers that Candidate X will be there, and that is probably most reliably done in person.

Or they could use this handy invention:



I'm at a loss to understand what exactly you're arguing here.  You're saying that presidential candidates contact local media by sending people into their offices, and telling them about upcoming candidate appearances in person?

---
"Hello, Mr. Thompson?  I know you're a busy person, being the editor in chief of the Des Moines Register and all, but my boss, Gov. Barbour asked me to fly up here from Jackson, MS to tell you about his appearance at the state fair next week.  He wants you to know that he'll be there, so you can send someone to cover his appearance.  Yes, I'm going to visit a few other media outlets here in town and then fly back to Jackson.

"Unfortunately, I have to make two connections on my flight back to Jackson.  Too bad Mississippi doesn't have a major air hub, or I could cut my travel time by a good two hours.  I wish I could have let you know about this some other way, rather than embarking on this arduous journey with multiple layovers.  But if you know of a better way for me to transmit this information to you, I'd like to hear it.  If only this country had some kind of reliable system for transmitting information across long distances."
---

I should also mention that, because of the crazy primary system, an overwhelming %age of the the candidates' travel in the year leading up to the primaries is to just a few states (e.g., IA, NH, SC, FL...), and all the big campaigns have paid staff in each of the early states.  That is, people who live and work year round in, say, Iowa, yet work for the Romney campaign.  The only ones with no local staff in those states would be the campaigns being run on a shoestring.  e.g., folks like Tom Tancredo or Jim Gilmore in 2008.

[Mr. Morden]

I can just imagine the conversations going on in Barbour's office right now.  "Yeah, I think I'd have a decent shot at winning the presidency, but there is one major problem here.  How are we going to ship sound systems up to Des Moines?  I mean, we could send it up by plane, but you'd have to make a connecting flight in St. Louis."

[Lunar]

The candidate can use private aircraft all that he wants, as can staff. But delivering and setting up sound systems is prohibitively expensive by private plane.

What?  Do you think if Haley Barbour sets up a campaign event with soundsystems in Iowa, that he carts them from Mississippi to do so?

Campaigns rent out sound systems from local retailers.  Do you think McCain shipped out soundsystems on any kind of plane, private or public, from Phoenix to the early primary states?  Why would he do that?  It's cheaper and easier to just rent them out from the many, many companies in every locality that provide event services [staging, sound, etcetc].

Publicists who deal with local media obviously can't travel with the Presidential candidate.

The communications team is based out of the campaign headquarters, which in the case of Haley Barbour would be in Washington D.C., a major air hub.

Someone has to tell the news managers of radio and television stations and the political editors of newspapers that Candidate X will be there, and that is probably most reliably done in person.

That's just outrageously false and basically crazy.  News managers of radio and television stations do not ever want someone in person telling them that candidate X will be attending an event.  I've been inside political campaigns, and trust me, the scheduler of campaign events ONLY uses email & the phone to schedule.

How is it more reliable to show up in person anyway?  The most reliable way to schedule an event is to communicate online & over the phone and to give written & verbal confirmations that you'll be attending.

As for getting campaign literature there... such items of low value-added must often be produced locally and trucked in.

Trucked in?  Yes, campaigns have field local field operations in every state, and they'll contract out with local businesses to produce campaign literature.  Certainly McCain produced 0 campaign literature in Arizona.  

Why you would mention this is confusing, you both admit that it's produced locally [and thus irrelevant] and you admit that it's low-value, and thus not a relevant factor in determining the outcome of a campaign that is spending hundreds of millions of dollars.

It's not the candidate -- it's staff who must fly commercially; equipment, props, and such stuff as campaign literature must often be trucked in. Any logistic failure can be a political disaster.

Yes, that's why campaigns typically hire talented & competent staff members to solely handle logistics.  Indeed, if everyone were to be based out of Mississippi, said logistics could be 30-40% more complicated [they would have to hire an additional staff member?], but Barbour's campaign would NOT be based out of Mississippi, it would be based out of the D.C. metro area with substantial local field operations in every important primary state.  

All props, equipment, and campaign literature would be rented, contracted, or produced locally for every campaign, regardless if the candidate is politically based near a major air hub or not.

Seriously dude, drop this argument, you're ruining your credibility here by holding onto it in the face of all logic

[Ameriplan]

Bill Clinton was elected from Arkansas. Conversation WIN.

[Lunar]

Bill Clinton was elected from Arkansas. Conversation WIN.

Bob Dole was politically based out of Kansas and John McCain out of Arizona too.  Arizona surely was an inconvenient flight for all of those McCain staffers going to Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina.  Yet somehow Romney won Nevada, despite his campaign needing to ship sound systems all the way from Mass. while McCain's sound systems, press people, and stage props were much closer!  And Huckabee won Iowa despite being based out of inconvenient Arkansas!  WEIRD - it's almost like the air hub theory is completely baseless and absurd!

[sentinel]

Bill Clinton was elected from Arkansas. Conversation WIN.

Bob Dole was politically based out of Kansas and John McCain out of Arizona too.  Arizona surely was an inconvenient flight for all of those McCain staffers going to Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina.  Yet somehow Romney won Nevada, despite his campaign needing to ship sound systems all the way from Mass. while McCain's sound systems, press people, and stage props were much closer!  And Huckabee won Iowa despite being based out of inconvenient Arkansas!  WEIRD - it's almost like the air hub theory is completely baseless and absurd!

I don't give much credit to AirHub theory but everyone you listed lost.

[Lunar]

They won their primaries, which is the election I think we're talking about

[Derek]

They should have to fly commercial like us.

[J. J.]

The point might be the cost.  It would be a huge bite out of campaign funds, I think counted against spending limits, and if someone provides one, it is considered a campaign contribution.

I don't think it's *that* expensive, when compared with other expenditures incurred by the campaign.  And even if it is, they largely do it anyway.  Certainly in the general election, the major party candidates are *not* flying commercial.  In the primaries, I think only the candidates who are operating on a shoestring (like say, Tom Tancredo and the early part of the Huckabee campaign) do it.  The campaigns with money fly private planes.  McCain actually started flying commercial for a while in the summer of 2007, when his campaign was imploding and it went broke.

Dole actually hit expenditure limits early in 1996.  I'm not sure about McCain, but he had basically an "early win."  I would point out that Phoenix is a major transport hub, with the 9th busiest airport in the US, and that Dole was based in DC.

I think it might be more of how to distribute resources in a campaign than the overall cost.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

They should have to fly commercial like us.

Even the President?

And how does the candidate who isn't President tote around the press contingent and staff?

Please be realistic.

[Derek]

They should have to fly commercial like us.

Even the President?

And how does the candidate who isn't President tote around the press contingent and staff?

Please be realistic.

No not the president. Without spinning my comments, you wouldn't have been able to say what you've just said. Please read what I have to say without adding onto it and be realistic. I was referring to candidates.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

They should have to fly commercial like us.

Even the President?

And how does the candidate who isn't President tote around the press contingent and staff?

Please be realistic.

No not the president. Without spinning my comments, you wouldn't have been able to say what you've just said. Please read what I have to say without adding onto it and be realistic. I was referring to candidates.

The president should have to fly commercial. And get a real job to pay for it.