Is Anne Frank in Hell?
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Author Topic: Is Anne Frank in Hell?  (Read 16123 times)
Thomas D
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« on: July 08, 2010, 04:52:19 PM »

This strikes me as something that's been talked about here before so I did a search for "Frank" and found a lot of stuff on Al Franken and Barney Frank.

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Since the Jews don't do this is Anne and every other Jewish person in hell?

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.
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useful idiot
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 04:59:22 PM »

What the hell does the Jewish thing matter? Why are you focusing solely on them?
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Thomas D
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 05:04:57 PM »

What the hell does the Jewish thing matter? Why are you focusing solely on them?

I used Jewish people here since Anne Frank is such a beloved person in history. But you're right you could put in any non-Christan faith.
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useful idiot
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 05:28:14 PM »

What the hell does the Jewish thing matter? Why are you focusing solely on them?

I used Jewish people here since Anne Frank is such a beloved person in history. But you're right you could put in any non-Christan faith.

Nobody knows where she is. For the purposes of discussion it really doesn't matter. But yeah, as a Christian one has to accept that those, of able mind, who don't accept Christ will perish. If there's no God, then Christians are wrong so it doesn't matter. That's the great thing about having the freedom of conscience; if you don't want to believe it then you don't have to.

The problem that questions like yours pose for Christians is that it makes no sense in a Christian worldview. It presupposes two things: 1) That humans don't deserve hell, and 2) That he who created all mankind doesn't have the right to do with them as he wishes. This has the effect of elevating man and bringing God down to man's level, and takes us back to the original sin of pride, that which the serpent tempted Adam with. It disrespects the distinction between creator and creation.

But again, you're free to believe whatever you want. I merely find the statement that you wouldn't want to go to heaven if non-Christians were sent to hell to be quite funny. It's the equivalent of being a dog and saying you don't want an owner because other dogs are going to be put down.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 05:38:16 PM »

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Since the Jews don't do this is Anne and every other Jewish person in hell?

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

so, let me get this straight:  you believe the sufferings of Anne Frank should have earned her a ticket to Heaven? 

Christianity views salvation as a gift of God, not as something than can be earned.  Period.  Sorry you don't accept such a basic premise.
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hcallega
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 05:43:04 PM »

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Since the Jews don't do this is Anne and every other Jewish person in hell?

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

so, let me get this straight:  you believe the sufferings of Anne Frank should have earned her a ticket to Heaven? 

Christianity views salvation as a gift of God, not as something than can be earned.  Period.  Sorry you don't accept such a basic premise.

Well if you're an adherent to the unofficial churches (i.e. Protestant ones) I can see someone believing that.

It's quite clear to me that Jesus's message was love and acceptance for all people. I believe in Jesus, but I think deep down we're all Christians. I also believe that salvation is found through faith and good works. If someone is a good person then yes, they have earned a spot in heaven. God looks at people deep down inside, not just what faith they subscribe to.
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Thomas D
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« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 05:43:37 PM »

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Since the Jews don't do this is Anne and every other Jewish person in hell?

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

so, let me get this straight:  you believe the sufferings of Anne Frank should have earned her a ticket to Heaven? 

Christianity views salvation as a gift of God, not as something than can be earned.  Period.  Sorry you don't accept such a basic premise.

My thought is if you're a nice person who tries to be good and doesn't hurt people God should let you into heaven. If there is a God and Heaven.
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Bo
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 05:50:11 PM »

No, she isn't in Hell. If there is a Heaven and Hell (which I believe there is), people would be judged by the content of their character rather than by their religious devotion and affiliation. Thus, Anne Frank would be in Heaven, since she didn't do anything wrong or evil.
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useful idiot
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 06:51:56 PM »

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Since the Jews don't do this is Anne and every other Jewish person in hell?

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

so, let me get this straight:  you believe the sufferings of Anne Frank should have earned her a ticket to Heaven? 

Christianity views salvation as a gift of God, not as something than can be earned.  Period.  Sorry you don't accept such a basic premise.

Well if you're an adherent to the unofficial churches (i.e. Protestant ones) I can see someone believing that.

It's quite clear to me that Jesus's message was love and acceptance for all people. I believe in Jesus, but I think deep down we're all Christians. I also believe that salvation is found through faith and good works. If someone is a good person then yes, they have earned a spot in heaven. God looks at people deep down inside, not just what faith they subscribe to.

But why do you believe that? Why is that "clear" to you? I can see why atheists don't understand how people believe the claims in the Bible, but how on earth can anyone believe things like that without the Bible(since apparently that isn't your source for these beliefs of yours)? It makes far less sense.

Without believing in the authenticity of the Bible(like the "unofficial" churches you speak of do), then short of direct revelation from God, on what basis do you believe anything about Jesus?
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John Dibble
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 07:49:21 PM »

Ah, Hell. That place where the unbelievers end up just because they don't believe, regardless of what they may have done with their lives, by the God that supposedly loves them so they can burn in a lake of fire for all eternity.
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FallenMorgan
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2010, 09:51:21 PM »

How dare all these non-Christians not abandon the faith they were raised from birth to believe, and accept some other faith that has no more proof than their own.
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useful idiot
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2010, 10:18:04 PM »

How dare all these non-Christians not abandon the faith they were raised from birth to believe, and accept some other faith that has no more proof than their own.

Again, the beauty is that if someone doesn't want to believe it, they don't have to.

Honestly, if the Christian idea of salvation is so unbelievable, and yet so wicked, then why do people get upset by it? It should cause no more outrage than the fact that Snow White's stepmother tried to poison her.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2010, 10:55:24 PM »

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

Thank you for the information about what my faith is!
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2010, 12:14:46 AM »

I don't know. It's a sin to claim someone is in Heaven or Hell, because you don't know their hearts.

Even then, I don't know what to believe regarding Heaven and Hell's entrance fees. Jews are God's chosen people, you know, so I'm not sure of their status. I personally hope not.
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Derek
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2010, 12:56:26 AM »

When referring to hell in a 21st century way one things of flames and fire. However, the word hell comes from the Hebrew word "hinnam" as in Hinnam Valley where the Canaanites practiced child sacrifice to the God Molech. The non-believers were literally burning in hell. That's where the notion came from. The meaning of the word hell or hinnam actually refers to nothingness. So if one is in hell they cease to exist. Therefore, by definition, being dead and ceasing to exist would put Anne Frank in hell. Actually it would put every dead person in hell. Whether or not their soul is in heaven is up for debate.
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Derek
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2010, 01:07:07 AM »

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Since the Jews don't do this is Anne and every other Jewish person in hell?

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

so, let me get this straight:  you believe the sufferings of Anne Frank should have earned her a ticket to Heaven? 

Christianity views salvation as a gift of God, not as something than can be earned.  Period.  Sorry you don't accept such a basic premise.

You have the belief that Jesus was for the Jews only or only for those who converted to Christianity? I don't see the point in the divine choosing a religion. Yes, Jesus took on the religion of the culture around him and if not he would have been viewed as an outcast. No nothing can earn going to heaven because humans are sinful and imperfect. This is why Christ HAD TO die for our sins. Only arrogance assumes it was for one particular group of people.
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Derek
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2010, 01:26:50 AM »

No, she isn't in Hell. If there is a Heaven and Hell (which I believe there is), people would be judged by the content of their character rather than by their religious devotion and affiliation. Thus, Anne Frank would be in Heaven, since she didn't do anything wrong or evil.

For once I agree with you Rochambeau. As far as I know Anne Frank was a good person. By definition God would forgiving as God would be the most good. By most good I mean there is what we consider is good and then there is Good which is goodness in actuality.
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jfern
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2010, 01:30:41 AM »

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

God: "Let's see... Jesus of Nazareth. You're another Jew. Off to hell with you"
Jesus: "But I'm your son"
God: "You're definitely going to hell now"
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Roemerista
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2010, 01:55:44 AM »
« Edited: July 09, 2010, 01:57:40 AM by MQuinn »

According to the Catholic Church those who have been presented the Gospel in an authentic way,  but turn their back on G-d, will be sent to Hell (Cat 846).

However, to not hear the Gospel is not their fault, and by hear I do not mean "hear of." The Church teaches that it is by the Christ's mercy that people are saved, even if they may not realize it at the moment of death. It would be through no fault of her own that she never heard the Gospel.

If they never properly were introduced to Christ, then  it would be the fault of the Christian, for it is his job to spread the Good News.

Over all, it is not we who should judge in the end, anyway.

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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2010, 03:00:07 AM »

She would be if Hell existed, but luckily it's a product of superstition.
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Ameriplan
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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2010, 05:49:35 AM »

So Christians think the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Since the Jews don't do this is Anne and every other Jewish person in hell?

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

so, let me get this straight:  you believe the sufferings of Anne Frank should have earned her a ticket to Heaven? 

Christianity views salvation as a gift of God, not as something than can be earned.  Period.  Sorry you don't accept such a basic premise.

My thought is if you're a nice person who tries to be good and doesn't hurt people God should let you into heaven. If there is a God and Heaven.

I agree.
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Gren
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« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2010, 05:58:28 AM »

Does it really matter? I mean, we'll never know the answer to that question, or at least until we die. But anyway, why would a loving and allforgiving God send his children to a place like that? That doesn't make any sense to me. As far is I'm concerned, Hell's just something to prevent people from acting "wrong" by threatening them with eternal suffering. It doesn't work with many people, obviously.
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afleitch
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2010, 08:01:42 AM »

Heaven and hell are human constructs (as is re-incarnation etc) and therefore 'entry requirments' are also human constructs.

However the conditions under which someone believes you enter one or the other is therefore deeply rooted in that persons sense of justice. Very few human beings, the compassionate animals that we are, should have a sense of 'justice' that if applied to the concept of a heaven/hell, would send a young woman like Anne Frank after everything she went through to damnation. Except if they adhere to an ideology that requires just that. That is why some people without a skipped heartbeat when faced with this question say 'yes she is in hell' despite being compassionate themselves.

That is what I find so extraordinary; that humans are capable of compassion in so many intrinsic and exceptional ways, but apparently a god does not; compassion is only shown is pre-set ways and under pre-set rules.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2010, 08:10:27 AM »

No, she's not buried in OK.
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J. J.
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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2010, 08:40:49 AM »

BTW, If God does sent people to hell for being Jewish I don't want to go to heaven.

God: "Let's see... Jesus of Nazareth. You're another Jew. Off to hell with you"
Jesus: "But I'm your son"
God: "You're definitely going to hell now"


He did, but it was a weekend trip.
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