The Curious Case of Alvin Greene

[politicalchick20]

He's either a sufferer of social anxiety or a bad actor.  Either way, not a good politician...

That appearance on Olbermann was pretty good though...Did anyone hear the person in the background yelling talking points?

YES! At one point, it clearly sounds like someone is telling him to say something. During the break later on, Olbermann said Greene's lawyer was just out of camera range, possibly feeding him answers.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Some political shenanigans occurred in a race no one cared about, as the winner would have no chance...

are you aware of South Carolina's history?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/governors/the-five-nastiest-south-caroli.html#more

Just saying.  Look at how NY GOP should be performing in the districts that they gerrymandered, holding 2 of 29 federal seats statewide, and zero statewide offices.


Just because some ineffective party fails at competing in a primary for a race they never really cared about, doesn't make them ineffective.  

Is there a worse political sh**thole than South Carolina? I'd never want to live in a place so full of nastiness.

[specific_name]

He's either a sufferer of social anxiety or a bad actor.  Either way, not a good politician...

That appearance on Olbermann was pretty good though...Did anyone hear the person in the background yelling talking points?

YES! At one point, it clearly sounds like someone is telling him to say something. During the break later on, Olbermann said Greene's lawyer was just out of camera range, possibly feeding him answers.

If that was his lawyer, it would be especially odd. I don't think a public defender would be available for their client's media appearances.

[King]

In Lancaster County, Rawl won absentee ballots over Greene by a staggering 84 percent to 16 percent margin; but Greene easily led among Election Day voters by 17 percentage points.

In Spartanburg County, Ludwig said there are 25 precincts in which Greene received more votes than were actually cast and 50 other precincts where votes appeared to be missing from the final count.

“In only two of 88 precincts, do the number of votes Greene got plus the number we got equal the total cast,” Ludwig said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38433.html#ixzz0qZXV3RTm

[Landslide Lyndon]

Apparently mayor Daley's ghost retired at South Carolina.

[??????????]

Is Alvin Greene the real life JSojournor?

[Lunar]

Oh, obviously this was a rigged event.  It's just that everyone sees the baked potato and don't know if it was microwaved, baked, or something else.

Damn, am I hungry?  I think I am.

Also, is this guy the new Rand Paul?  keep this stuff in a thread guys.

[??????????]

What jerk removed my thread?

[Sam Spade]

What jerk removed my thread?

I didn't remove your thread, I just merged it with this one.

I don't want 50 SC Dem threads dominating this forum, as with 50 Rand Paul threads a couple of weeks ago.

King's is the next to go here.

[Torie]

Is this all a function of uber low information primary day voters? I mean the suggestion that there was massive ballot tampering in SC just doesn't seem very believable.

[Lunar]

The Republican plant theory gains steam in Lunar's mind...



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/10/AR2010061004943.html


"The intrigue surrounding this week's Democratic primary contests in South Carolina intensified Friday as campaign finance reports linked Gregory A. Brown, the challenger who lost to House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn, to a Republican consulting firm."


Besides, the SC GOP is famously sneaky

[Torie]

The Republican plant theory gains steam in Lunar's mind...



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/10/AR2010061004943.html


"The intrigue surrounding this week's Democratic primary contests in South Carolina intensified Friday as campaign finance reports linked Gregory A. Brown, the challenger who lost to House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn, to a Republican consulting firm."

Besides, the SC GOP is famously sneaky

So a bunch of Republican like AHDuke voted for the guy?   I mean just because you are a GOP plant, does not mean you win a Dem nomination for a statewide office. But hey, if it works in SC, maybe it should be tried in my state.

[Lunar]

Is this all a function of uber low information primary day voters? I mean the suggestion that there was massive ballot tampering in SC just doesn't seem very believable.

Well, the primary probably even had even lower turnout because in SC, Democrats can request Republican primary ballots, and there was a lot of excitement in the GOP primary.  

I guess, despite my skepticism over the "Greene" name, "Alvin Greene" is quite more "black-sounding" than "Vic Rawl"

But there are still those rumors I heard about an independent direct-mail effort targeting voters on Greene's behalf.

And, I said this earlier, but I'll repeat it for you.  Greene qualified for a public defender when he was charged with his felony a few months ago.  Someone in South Carolina with $10,000 in the bank, would not be eligible for a public defender.  Greene has been unemployed since he was involuntarily discharged from the military nine months ago, and has had no source of revenue.  He showed up with a $10k check to register for the ballot.  Even if he had the money stored away in a separate account, that's still a huge amount of money to spend on a race you raise $0 for, and go to 0 campaign events for, and produce 0 campaign literature for.   

Put two and two together, and there's NO CHANCE that something sneaky didn't happen here.

The end.

[Lunar]

So a bunch of Republican like AHDuke voted for the guy?   I mean just because you are a GOP plant, does not mean you win a Dem nomination for a statewide office. But hey, if it works in SC, maybe it should be tried in my state.

No, no, my point was that the race was even more low-turnout because informed voters would want to vote in the GOP primary. 

[Torie]

So a bunch of Republican like AHDuke voted for the guy?  I mean just because you are a GOP plant, does not mean you win a Dem nomination for a statewide office. But hey, if it works in SC, maybe it should be tried in my state.

No, no, my point was that the race was even more low-turnout because informed voters would want to vote in the GOP primary.  

So you agree it was a low information primary day voter thing that was the explanation of the chap getting so many votes (as a percentage since you are saying few voted in the Dem primary relatively speaking) on that day?  How he got on the ballot is another matter.

[Lunar]

That's probably one of the largest contributing factors.

But, since he showed up with that $10k check to get on the ballot of money that was not his own, and another no-name African-American beat the SC Democratic Party's choice in a congressional race as well, all bets are off on what other kinds of shady things were done here.  

[Torie]

That's probably one of the largest contributing factors.

But, since he showed up with that $10k check to get on the ballot of money that was not his own, and another no-name African-American beat the SC Democratic Party's choice in a congressional race as well, all bets are off on what other kinds of shady things were done here.  

Well, perhaps you will indulge me Lunar, and speculate for me about what mischief might be at least somewhat plausible and doable. I mean we don't want to be viewed as some sort of conspiracy kook now do we?  Thanks.

[Sam Spade]

Is this all a function of uber low information primary day voters? I mean the suggestion that there was massive ballot tampering in SC just doesn't seem very believable.

Massive ballot tampering is ridiculous conspiracy nonsense.

The SC GOP planting candidates is much more believable, but alas, not illegal without more information than what we've got.  Amusing that Dem primary voters fell for it, but this is certainly not without precedent in either party in many states.

 In general Greene performed stronger in the black dominated areas than his statewide average (or where blacks would dominate the Dem primaries), but there were a couple of oddities, and he still performed decently in the white areas outside the coast (Horry was a little strange, but whatever)

[Lunar]

The SC GOP planting candidates is much more believable, but alas, not illegal without more information than what we've got.  Amusing that Dem primary voters fell for it, but this is certainly not without precedent in either party in many states.

The $10,000 that Greene spent may have been illegal.  Obviously for a federal race, the maximum contribution is a notch about $2k.

Torie, I'm not saying they rigged the counting.  At worst, the shady things involved independent expenditures to target black voters.   Which may be illegal campaign expenditures, depending on the source of the money.

[Torie]

The SC GOP planting candidates is much more believable, but alas, not illegal without more information than what we've got.  Amusing that Dem primary voters fell for it, but this is certainly not without precedent in either party in many states.

The $10,000 that Greene spent may have been illegal.  Obviously for a federal race, the maximum contribution is a notch about $2k.

Torie, I'm not saying they rigged the counting.  At worst, the shady things involved independent expenditures to target black voters.   Which may be illegal campaign expenditures, depending on the source of the money.

Well for a mere $10,000, someone got a lot of bang for their buck, per voter and otherwise. I am not sure there is any there, there. It may be, that nobody cared, sort of like voting for party committee person. I never know who the heck they are, or care. So, the guy was the first name on the ballot, and that was that. Or maybe, it was just racial fealty, if the other dude was white.

[Sam Spade]

The SC GOP planting candidates is much more believable, but alas, not illegal without more information than what we've got.  Amusing that Dem primary voters fell for it, but this is certainly not without precedent in either party in many states.

The $10,000 that Greene spent may have been illegal.  Obviously for a federal race, the maximum contribution is a notch about $2k.

Torie, I'm not saying they rigged the counting.  At worst, the shady things involved independent expenditures to target black voters.   Which may be illegal campaign expenditures, depending on the source of the money.

All the "may be" reasons you're saying why this "may be illegal" is why I'm saying - "not illegal without further information than what we've got."

Become a lawyer - it helps with the thought process. 

[Lunar]

I don't want to become a lawyer, I'd rather struggle for my money.

The SC GOP planting candidates is much more believable, but alas, not illegal without more information than what we've got.  Amusing that Dem primary voters fell for it, but this is certainly not without precedent in either party in many states.

The $10,000 that Greene spent may have been illegal.  Obviously for a federal race, the maximum contribution is a notch about $2k.

Torie, I'm not saying they rigged the counting.  At worst, the shady things involved independent expenditures to target black voters.   Which may be illegal campaign expenditures, depending on the source of the money.

Well for a mere $10,000, someone got a lot of bang for their buck, per voter and otherwise. I am not sure there is any there, there. It may be, that nobody cared, sort of like voting for party committee person. I never know who the heck they are, or care. So, the guy was the first name on the ballot, and that was that. Or maybe, it was just racial fealty, if the other dude was white.

Aye, the other dude was not only white, but his name was "Vic Rawl" as I said above.

Obviously $10k is childsplay in politics.  

But to summarize:

Greene's ballot money: Almost certainly illegal, and 100% not his own

Greene's GOTV operation: If it existed, possibly illegal, and 100% on behalf of the GOP.  All I heard are rumors, the SC Dems better be scouring those counties looking for literature drops and that sort of thing.  I'm sure we'll find out soon enough whether those rumors of direct mail pieces turn out to be true, I'm 50/50 on them myself.

Honestly, interfering in the other side's primary is done all the time.  Hell, I may have done it.  But there is a big difference between legal and illegal.    

[Torie]

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Seek help.


Moving right along, what is illegal about AHDuke (as it were) sending out a mailer for Greene with his own money?

[Lunar]

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Seek help.

Haha.  Just a joke.  I'm not a fan of the struggle.  If someone told me the winning lottery numbers I'd do that and retire. 

[Torie]

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Seek help.

Haha.  Just a joke.  I'm not a fan of the struggle.  If someone told me the winning lottery numbers I'd do that and retire. 

Yes, that is more like the sybaritic Lunar, I know and love. I was worried for a moment!