Economics during the 19th century.
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Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.
HoffmanJohn
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« on: March 06, 2010, 04:58:34 PM »

The subject wasn't professionalized until the very early 20th century, and General Theory was not published until 1936. Thus I often wonder how much of influence did Marx, Smith, Ricardo, Malthus, and Mill have upon economists in the 20th century. I often think that such concepts of utility has been almost too influential,but whatever.
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Beet
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 09:18:51 AM »

The problem with the classicals such as Smith, Malthus, Ricardo, Marx, and Mill are that they couldn't come up with a convincing theory of value. Smith articulated the labor theory of value, which bases value on the amount of labor or difficulty of labor in making something, and pretty much everyone especially Marx followed him. The problem with the labor theory of value is that something isn't more valuable just because it's harder to make. You can spend all day building a mound of dirt in your backyard, but that doesn't mean someone will buy it from you. What's missing is the demand side: how many people want this thing?

In the 1870s, Carl Menger first articulated the concept of marginal utility in a non mathematical way. Leon Walras proved that prices of goods come into a general equilibrium across many markets. William Stanely Jevons independently arrived at marginal utility and defined it mathematically. These three, Menger, Walras, and Jevons started the so called marginal revolution in economics. In 1890, Alfred Marshall synthesized the ideas of marginal utility for both supply and demand and created modern neoclassical supply and demand theory, which, unlike the labor theory of value, determines value (or price) by using the meeting place of both producers and consumers. J.M. Keynes was a student of Alfred Marshall. Marshall had hoped that Keynes would become a chair of economics and wrote him several letters urging him to that effect, but Keynes instead wanted to go into public service, which he did before WWI and again during.
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phk
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 12:33:23 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2010, 12:42:01 PM by phknrocket1k »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".
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Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.
HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 12:47:49 PM »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".

Yes, but whenever I read Malthus or marx i find that these two individuals often tried to use math to explain their theory. What type of math were they using?
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phk
phknrocket1k
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 12:55:11 PM »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".

Yes, but whenever I read Malthus or marx i find that these two individuals often tried to use math to explain their theory. What type of math were they using?


I think for Marx it may have been Calculus.
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Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.
HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 01:08:36 PM »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".

Yes, but whenever I read Malthus or marx i find that these two individuals often tried to use math to explain their theory. What type of math were they using?

did he do anything with derivatives?


I think for Marx it may have been Calculus.
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phk
phknrocket1k
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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2010, 01:50:37 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2010, 03:31:32 PM by phknrocket1k »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".

Yes, but whenever I read Malthus or marx i find that these two individuals often tried to use math to explain their theory. What type of math were they using?

did he do anything with derivatives?


I think for Marx it may have been Calculus.

Actually I think for Marx and Malthus may have employed Calculus.

For Malthus it may have been to compare proportional growth rates of food and population. d'(t)/d(t) of two different variables with one another. You can simulate a lot of this in the Robinson Crusoe economy.

For Marx... not sure. He did write a book called the "Mathematical Manuscripts of Marx" and it was just AP Calc or Freshman Calc level.
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Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.
HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2010, 04:11:30 PM »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".

Yes, but whenever I read Malthus or marx i find that these two individuals often tried to use math to explain their theory. What type of math were they using?

did he do anything with derivatives?


I think for Marx it may have been Calculus.

Actually I think for Marx and Malthus may have employed Calculus.

For Malthus it may have been to compare proportional growth rates of food and population. d'(t)/d(t) of two different variables with one another. You can simulate a lot of this in the Robinson Crusoe economy.

For Marx... not sure. He did write a book called the "Mathematical Manuscripts of Marx" and it was just AP Calc or Freshman Calc level.

I know that LTV is often expressed in numerical terms.
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phk
phknrocket1k
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2010, 10:51:24 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2010, 11:05:28 PM by phknrocket1k »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".

Yes, but whenever I read Malthus or marx i find that these two individuals often tried to use math to explain their theory. What type of math were they using?

did he do anything with derivatives?


I think for Marx it may have been Calculus.

Actually I think for Marx and Malthus may have employed Calculus.

For Malthus it may have been to compare proportional growth rates of food and population. d'(t)/d(t) of two different variables with one another. You can simulate a lot of this in the Robinson Crusoe economy.

For Marx... not sure. He did write a book called the "Mathematical Manuscripts of Marx" and it was just AP Calc or Freshman Calc level.

I know that LTV is often expressed in numerical terms.

Most modern Economists don't really care much for the classical LTV but it was one of the things that led Economics to the Marginal Revolution.

Not related... but I incorrectly said Robinson Crusoe economy in a previous post. It should have been the Blue Lagoon Economy.
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Free Trade is managed by the invisible hand.
HoffmanJohn
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 08:52:57 AM »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".

Yes, but whenever I read Malthus or marx i find that these two individuals often tried to use math to explain their theory. What type of math were they using?

did he do anything with derivatives?


I think for Marx it may have been Calculus.

Actually I think for Marx and Malthus may have employed Calculus.

For Malthus it may have been to compare proportional growth rates of food and population. d'(t)/d(t) of two different variables with one another. You can simulate a lot of this in the Robinson Crusoe economy.

For Marx... not sure. He did write a book called the "Mathematical Manuscripts of Marx" and it was just AP Calc or Freshman Calc level.

I know that LTV is often expressed in numerical terms.

Most modern Economists don't really care much for the classical LTV but it was one of the things that led Economics to the Marginal Revolution.

Not related... but I incorrectly said Robinson Crusoe economy in a previous post. It should have been the Blue Lagoon Economy.

I really do not care for it either, but i could probably learn some calc by reading up on it.
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phk
phknrocket1k
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Posts: 12,906


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E: 1.42, S: -1.22

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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 01:23:42 PM »
« Edited: March 08, 2010, 01:37:22 PM by phknrocket1k »

Modern Econ has its roots in "the marginal revolution" and the marriage of Stats and Econ leading to "Econometrics".

Yes, but whenever I read Malthus or marx i find that these two individuals often tried to use math to explain their theory. What type of math were they using?

did he do anything with derivatives?


I think for Marx it may have been Calculus.

Actually I think for Marx and Malthus may have employed Calculus.

For Malthus it may have been to compare proportional growth rates of food and population. d'(t)/d(t) of two different variables with one another. You can simulate a lot of this in the Robinson Crusoe economy.

For Marx... not sure. He did write a book called the "Mathematical Manuscripts of Marx" and it was just AP Calc or Freshman Calc level.

I know that LTV is often expressed in numerical terms.

Most modern Economists don't really care much for the classical LTV but it was one of the things that led Economics to the Marginal Revolution.

Not related... but I incorrectly said Robinson Crusoe economy in a previous post. It should have been the Blue Lagoon Economy.

I really do not care for it either, but i could probably learn some calc by reading up on it.

I would recommend learning Calculus without any application first and than applying it to Econ. You will have less "holes" in your education that way.
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