FYI to Atlasia: List of users confirmed to be using informal proxies

[bgwah]

Please investigate the results of the Presidential election and the impact of sock voters. I am concerned that it may have affected the outcome and if it did to the extent it produced 'the wrong winner' then I do not have a mandate.

You won by something like 15 votes! You certainly have a mandate!

Yes, Afleitch's margin is large enough so as to not change the winner. It is the NE race that may have been affected.

Losing is preferable to winning via Hamilton's support, though...

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

only logical response


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[minionofmidas]

Yeah I agree.

We so desperately need the proxie voting ban.....but I have another idea:

How about we also ban registering to vote with a proxie. In that case we at least have an IP address for the registration and if any vote cast is suspect, we can compare it to registrations.

That would make it easier to prove socks and voter fraud.

This sounds reasonable.

[minionofmidas]

Uh, so:

Admitted Connections
* silent_spade - Possibly a dormmate, or possibly Hamilton's best guise yet.

* Vane - Friend from back in Bakersfield, not of the brightest.

* true liberty - Vane's sock.

Denied Connections
* RooseveltRepublican - Hamilton's sock

* geraldford76/Jensen/The Last Moderate - Hamilton's sock whose every single post sounds like Hamilton

* segwaystyle2012/Angry Mob - Hamilton's sock whose every single post sounds like Hamilton

Sound about right, everybody?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I want to get to work on proxy legislation ASAP, but I want to make sure cell phones are not banned. I use my iPhone to post here sometimes.

It's very simple to fix this problem : instead of banning voters who post from proxies, which would be hard to achieve, a far simpler thing to do would be to deem a vote which is posted from a proxy as invalid. The mods would just have to look at the voting thread and report the votes which come from proxies. The SoFA would also add to the election thread's main pos a disclaimer : "DO NOT VOTE WITH YOUR CELL PHONE" or something like this to warn newcomers.

I don't know. I vote on my iPhone all the time, especially if I've been away all weekend and haven't had access to a computer. Although, I see your point that people who create socks can theoretically take their phones or someone else's and vote with it. I'm not sure if each phone has a unique IP address or if it's just one for everyone.

We would just need to make sure a moderator checked all the votes being cast and verify they were not posted from a proxy of any kind. Perhaps we could debate cell phone voting and amend it accordingly.

Now the main problem would be to give a possibility to vote to people who don't regularly have an access to a computer. To put it clearly :  Maybe if we decide to ban proxy AND cell phone voting, we will have to increase the duration of an election, or develop the absentee ballot system. If we do that, everybody will have a possibility to vote.

Agreed. As I said, this will effect me as I vote via iPhone very often since I am away on many weekends. Maybe someone with more knowledge can clear up my question as to whether all phones have a unique IP or if they have the same IP depending on what tower they use. If all phones have a unique IP, then it won't matter. Of course, I can connect my iPhone to wifi, so I actually may not be in such bad shape.

I suppose we can either amend the Legitimate Voting Act to include increasing the duration of voting, reform the absentee ballots, both, or just introduce another bill concurrently. This may be amended into a mammoth of a bill.

[minionofmidas]

Obvy the rule ought to be that what's illegal is regularly (exclusively or near-exclusively) posting from a proxy, not the fact that someone does so occasionally.

[cinyc]

Yeah I agree.

We so desperately need the proxie voting ban.....but I have another idea:

How about we also ban registering to vote with a proxie. In that case we at least have an IP address for the registration and if any vote cast is suspect, we can compare it to registrations.

That would make it easier to prove socks and voter fraud.

Personally I don't see a rationale for needing a proxy to post from at all. Not a good one anyway.

Ever post something from your cellphone using Opera Mini or Skyfire?   If so, you've posted from a proxy server.  And it's perfectly legitimate.

[President Mitt]

Anyways, time for my input.

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Obviously Hamilton. Nothing further really to add here.

He was fun though.......

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I do not question The Last Moderate's legitimacy. If he was a POP Sock, then it wouldn't have taken 10 pms for me to convince him over to our side (he had some second thoughts over in the AASP corner.) If he is a sock, than the Puppet Master is truly an evil genius, but I really doubt it.

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Posts from proxies, yeah. That doesn't really make it automatic. He kinda sounds (no insult intended) like one of those paranoid people who would be afraid of the gubment tracking him down and harming his identity somehow. I think he's definitely real.

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Another really hard one. I don't really see much chance of him being fake. If he was a sock intended to bolster our party's ranks, it wouldn't have taken 20 or 30 minutes worth of pming on my and Libertas' part to drag him over, and we did have to concede some to him.

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Nothing further to be said.

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I have never had contact with these two.

[cinyc]

Agreed. As I said, this will effect me as I vote via iPhone very often since I am away on many weekends. Maybe someone with more knowledge can clear up my question as to whether all phones have a unique IP or if they have the same IP depending on what tower they use. If all phones have a unique IP, then it won't matter. Of course, I can connect my iPhone to wifi, so I actually may not be in such bad shape.

I suppose we can either amend the Legitimate Voting Act to include increasing the duration of voting, reform the absentee ballots, both, or just introduce another bill concurrently. This may be amended into a mammoth of a bill.

It likely depends on the browser you use.  The faster cell phone browsers usually convert web pages into small images, which are downloaded to your phone.  I know for a fact that Opera mini and Skyfire do that - and can run a test to see what IP address is shown.  Opera's IP address is usually somewhere in Europe (which makes for interesting results if a page supposedly shows your time or some sort of other feature based on IP geolocation).  I'm not as sure about Safari, if that's what the iPhone uses.

I believe Internet Explorer for a windows phone will post things with a normal cell phone IP address - i.e. an IP address from AT&T or T-Mobile or Verizon Wireless or whatever. 

I'm going to create a dummy thread to confirm this.

[Marokai Backbeat]

To all the people who have advocated or even introduced proxy voting bans, please explain to me why people need to use proxies at all.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

To all the people who have advocated or even introduced proxy voting bans, please explain to me why people need to use proxies at all.

Read Cinyc's posts above

[Marokai Backbeat]

To all the people who have advocated or even introduced proxy voting bans, please explain to me why people need to use proxies at all.

Read Cinyc's posts above

I did, but I still don't think there's a legitimate reason why we can't ban proxies completely. If someone's posting from a cell phone, you can usually tell it's from a cell anyway, not some sort of fake address. There's a difference.

[minionofmidas]

To all the people who have advocated or even introduced proxy voting bans, please explain to me why people need to use proxies at all.

Read Cinyc's posts above

I did, but I still don't think there's a legitimate reason why we can't ban proxies completely. If someone's posting from a cell phone, you can usually tell it's from a cell anyway, not some sort of fake address. There's a difference.

Yes BUT IT IS A PROXY.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

To all the people who have advocated or even introduced proxy voting bans, please explain to me why people need to use proxies at all.

Read Cinyc's posts above

I did, but I still don't think there's a legitimate reason why we can't ban proxies completely. If someone's posting from a cell phone, you can usually tell it's from a cell anyway, not some sort of fake address. There's a difference.

My above post was posting using my iPhone. Could you tell it was from a cell phone?

[cinyc]

Agreed. As I said, this will effect me as I vote via iPhone very often since I am away on many weekends. Maybe someone with more knowledge can clear up my question as to whether all phones have a unique IP or if they have the same IP depending on what tower they use. If all phones have a unique IP, then it won't matter. Of course, I can connect my iPhone to wifi, so I actually may not be in such bad shape.

I suppose we can either amend the Legitimate Voting Act to include increasing the duration of voting, reform the absentee ballots, both, or just introduce another bill concurrently. This may be amended into a mammoth of a bill.

It likely depends on the browser you use.  The faster cell phone browsers usually convert web pages into small images, which are downloaded to your phone.  I know for a fact that Opera mini and Skyfire do that - and can run a test to see what IP address is shown.  Opera's IP address is usually somewhere in Europe (which makes for interesting results if a page supposedly shows your time or some sort of other feature based on IP geolocation).  I'm not as sure about Safari, if that's what the iPhone uses.

I believe Internet Explorer for a windows phone will post things with a normal cell phone IP address - i.e. an IP address from AT&T or T-Mobile or Verizon Wireless or whatever. 

I'm going to create a dummy thread to confirm this.

I ran the test on a thread on another subboard that I'm going to delete soon.  The IP address for Opera Mini tracks back to an IP block owned by Opera in Norway.  Skyfire tracked back to an IP block owned by ClearBlue Technologies in the US (I have no clue who they are or their relationship the maker of the browser).  Internet Explorer tracked back to a US IP block owned by Wireless Data Service Provider Corporation, which provides IP solutions to cellular carriers, according to their website.  Only IE showed up with the cell phone icon on my post, probably because it automatically loaded the forum WAP page.  That's not quite an IP block from your cell phone provider, but it's the closest.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Posts made from my iPhone register as AT&T network in Miami, Florida and is NOT through a proxy. I'm not sure how we handle that.

Hostname:   xxx.mycingular.net
ISP:    AT&T GLOBAL NETWORK SERVICES
Organization:   AT&T GLOBAL NETWORK SERVICES
Proxy:   None detected
Type:   Broadband
Assignment:   Static IP

[cinyc]

Posts made from my iPhone register as AT&T network in Miami, Florida and is NOT through a proxy. I'm not sure how we handle that.

Hostname:  XXXX
ISP:    AT&T GLOBAL NETWORK SERVICES
Organization:   AT&T GLOBAL NETWORK SERVICES
Proxy:   None detected
Type:   Broadband
Assignment:   Static IP

If it's a static IP, it's not a proxy.  AT&T is the ISP for your phone.

You probably should delete the Hostname in your post.  It gives too much info.

[Frodo]

In retrospect, JSojourner did us a favor -he brought to light in a way no one else could the problem of 'socks' and 'puppets' in Atlasia.

I am beginning to wonder how many elections in the past were affected by this problem, and what posters back then were actually sock puppets.  Some we already know -others...   

[minionofmidas]

In retrospect, JSojourner did us a favor -he brought to light in a way no one else could the problem of 'socks' and 'puppets' in Atlasia.

I am beginning to wonder how many elections in the past were affected by this problem, and what posters back then were actually sock puppets.  Some we already know -others...   

Nice on posting that from your sock account, Nym.

[Frodo]

In retrospect, JSojourner did us a favor -he brought to light in a way no one else could the problem of 'socks' and 'puppets' in Atlasia.

I am beginning to wonder how many elections in the past were affected by this problem, and what posters back then were actually sock puppets.  Some we already know -others...   

Nice on posting that from your sock account, Nym.

I'm flattered. 

[Psychic Octopus]

I'm not convinced Segway is Hamilton, as Segway as his own AIM.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm not convinced Segway is Hamilton, as Segway as his own AIM.

Remind me to use that trick sometime, since that's all it takes.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm not convinced Segway is Hamilton, as Segway as his own AIM.

You can have as many IM handles as you want. That proves nothing. Just remember he posts only from proxies AND his activity increased dramatically following Hamilton's banning.

[segwaystyle2012]

I'm not convinced Segway is Hamilton, as Segway as his own AIM.

You can have as many IM handles as you want. That proves nothing. Just remember he posts only from proxies AND his activity increased dramatically following Hamilton's banning.

Many people's activity increased following Hamilton's banning. What a piece of evidence you got there!

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm not convinced Segway is Hamilton, as Segway as his own AIM.

You can have as many IM handles as you want. That proves nothing. Just remember he posts only from proxies AND his activity increased dramatically following Hamilton's banning.

Many people's activity increased following Hamilton's banning. What a piece of evidence you got there!

Name three, and prove each allegation.