Opinion of Saudi Arabia

[Vepres]

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

[Vepres]

The 2 biggest issues being of course the outcome in Iran, and the developments in Israel/Palestine.

Those issues carry relatively little weight in the Saudi mainstream, all things considered. Partly there's lack of interest by the middle sectors and there's government censorship on major foreign issues.

I can't speak for the rural areas well, and nobody can, but the Saudi middle sector and especially those who work for or close to the government are pure capitalists. Their only worry is personal gain of some sort, with limited interest in other issues except when it threatens their position.

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't they the majority?

Did you really "live" in Saudi Arabia, or a sheltered area of an urban center for westerners?

[Vepres]

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Let's not delve into the stupid stereotypes which are entertained about Arabs or Saudis. I know Saudis and Arabs, they can be Muslim/religious and smart at the same time. And intelligence doesn't equate with support for western concepts of democracy, contrary to the thoughts of most westerners.

Perhaps you could define "intelligence".

[Vepres]

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Let's not delve into the stupid stereotypes which are entertained about Arabs or Saudis. I know Saudis and Arabs, they can be Muslim/religious and smart at the same time. And intelligence doesn't equate with support for western concepts of democracy, contrary to the thoughts of most westerners.

Perhaps you could define "intelligence".

Having knowledge of facts, information, sound judgement and reason and basic knowledge.

You need to understand that the concept of liberal democracy which we love to spread isn't a universal concept, and in some societies the concept of liberal democracy is foreign and unusual.

Not all Saudis are intelligent, just like not all westerners are intelligent. But saying they're not intelligent is borderline insulting.

I didn't say that, I was responding you acting like they were superior for some reason.

Liberal democracy isn't universal, no, but the whole world is trending in that direction, if slowly (and not just because of western influence).

[Vepres]

I didn't say that, I was responding you acting like they were superior for some reason.

Not superior in intelligence, but quite superior in manners and hospitality. We Westerners tend to be snobs, who take every flipping thing for granted and we treat others with contempt.

In terms of hospitality and manners, I have never seen an American disrespect a foreigner in our country. Contempt? Hardly. I am looking at this from an American perspective, but they hate foreign governments, not foreign people or cultures.

Oh, and a society that makes foreign women wear a burka (sp?) in public is not what I'd call hospitable.

[Vepres]

I didn't say that, I was responding you acting like they were superior for some reason.

Not superior in intelligence, but quite superior in manners and hospitality. We Westerners tend to be snobs, who take every flipping thing for granted and we treat others with contempt.

In terms of hospitality and manners, I have never seen an American disrespect a foreigner in our country. Contempt? Hardly. I am looking at this from an American perspective, but they hate foreign governments, not foreign people or cultures.

Go in any Arab or Asian country and you'll see that they have superior manners and hospitality than any western country.

Firstly, if your drawing from your experience, you lived in an area DESIGNED for westerns. Venture into regular civilian areas and you probably find a different story.

I'm just sick of all this western guilt bulls%t. Every immigrant I've met (and yes, I know a number of Asian immigrants) have always talked about how nice and respectful America is. Now, if you're referring to Europe, I wouldn't know.

[Vepres]

Firstly, if your drawing from your experience, you lived in an area DESIGNED for westerns. Venture into regular civilian areas and you probably find a different story.

Well, really, maybe it was a flipping compound but nobody was locked in. Nothing prevented anybody from travelling anywhere. It isn't the DPRK. Stop sprouting stuff you know to be false, or at least don't say stuff you don't know.

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It's not western guilt, it's not that westerners can't be nice, it's just that every Asian-Arab-African-whatever I've met have been extremely well-mannered and, yes, in some cases, more than certain westerners.

Sorry, just the idea that westerners are arrogant is one that I really hate. But w/e.

[Vepres]

Horrible. The House of Saud's occupation of the Holy Cities must be ended.

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Kindly fuсk off. Thank you.

Xahar put it nicely, but I must ask...hypothetically...someone dedicates his life to a seminary and commits the entire Koran to memory.  Who am I to tell him he isn't intelligent after he pulls off an intellectual feat I could never do?

I'm talking about ONLY a Muslim education. Denying evolution, denying the holocaust, etc. You guys take what I say too literally

If I replaced Muslim with Christian and Saudi Arabia with Arkansas you wouldn't have said anything.

Perhaps I should've replaced intelligence with ignorance.

[Vepres]

Horrible. The House of Saud's occupation of the Holy Cities must be ended.

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Kindly fuсk off. Thank you.

Xahar put it nicely, but I must ask...hypothetically...someone dedicates his life to a seminary and commits the entire Koran to memory.  Who am I to tell him he isn't intelligent after he pulls off an intellectual feat I could never do?

I'm talking about ONLY a Muslim education. Denying evolution, denying the holocaust, etc. You guys take what I say too literally

If I replaced Muslim with Christian and Saudi Arabia with Arkansas you wouldn't have said anything.

I see what you think Islam is. Classy.

How is this different then when you talk about Christian fundamentalists? Stop looking for ways to be offended, it really is annoying.

Face it, Saudi Arabia is very theocratic, thus they have fundamentalists there. I'm not talking about Islam in general.

[Vepres]

Horrible. The House of Saud's occupation of the Holy Cities must be ended.

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Kindly fuсk off. Thank you.

Xahar put it nicely, but I must ask...hypothetically...someone dedicates his life to a seminary and commits the entire Koran to memory.  Who am I to tell him he isn't intelligent after he pulls off an intellectual feat I could never do?

I'm talking about ONLY a Muslim education. Denying evolution, denying the holocaust, etc. You guys take what I say too literally

If I replaced Muslim with Christian and Saudi Arabia with Arkansas you wouldn't have said anything.

I see what you think Islam is. Classy.

How is this different then when you talk about Christian fundamentalists. Stop looking for ways to be offended, it really is annoying.

Face it, Saudi Arabia is very theocratic, thus they have fundamentalists there.

When have I done that? i have never accused a "Christian education" of being anything bad.

So? The Sauds are heretics.

Exactly. Wasn't it clear that I was criticizing Islam in Saudi Arabia, even if I should have articulated what I meant better. Indoctrination is more the word I was looking for. I have nothing against moderate Islam, but moderates are a minority in the Middle-East unfortunately.

[Vepres]

Horrible. The House of Saud's occupation of the Holy Cities must be ended.

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Kindly fuсk off. Thank you.

Xahar put it nicely, but I must ask...hypothetically...someone dedicates his life to a seminary and commits the entire Koran to memory.  Who am I to tell him he isn't intelligent after he pulls off an intellectual feat I could never do?

I'm talking about ONLY a Muslim education. Denying evolution, denying the holocaust, etc. You guys take what I say too literally

If I replaced Muslim with Christian and Saudi Arabia with Arkansas you wouldn't have said anything.

I see what you think Islam is. Classy.

How is this different then when you talk about Christian fundamentalists. Stop looking for ways to be offended, it really is annoying.

Face it, Saudi Arabia is very theocratic, thus they have fundamentalists there.

When have I done that? I have never accused a "Christian education" of being anything bad.

So? The Sauds are heretics.

Exactly. Wasn't it clear that I was criticizing Islam in Saudi Arabia, even if I should have articulated what I meant better. Indoctrination is more the word I was looking for. I have nothing against moderate Islam, but moderates are a minority in the Middle-East unfortunately.

Do you know this? Have you been to the Middle East? Or are the people not sufficiently intelligent for you?

How are you any more qualified to know this than I? And I never said Middle-Easterners or Muslims were less intelligent, I said indoctrinated Muslims are ignorant. If they weren't the minority, how does a Government like Saudi Arabia's survive without uprisings?

Didn't they charge a women with the crime of wearing trousers (or was it another country)?

It just seems you're now intent on being needlessly offended and are ignoring my explanations.

[Vepres]

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Haha....

Excellent posts, Hashemite. Nothing more to say.

Some disrespect foreign groups, but never an individual to their face.

[Vepres]

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Haha....

Excellent posts, Hashemite. Nothing more to say.

Some disrespect foreign groups, but never an individual to their face.

Cool, you surely have cool genes there. Lucky.

I don't get it. I'm referring to culture

[Vepres]

I really don't understand why everybody one, assumes I share the views of some Republican hick in Alabma, and two, seems obsessed with attacking me.

[Vepres]

How are you any more qualified to know this than I? And I never said Middle-Easterners or Muslims were less intelligent, I said indoctrinated Muslims are ignorant. If they weren't the minority, how does a Government like Saudi Arabia's survive without uprisings?

Just, because I defended a similar point of view, when I say that a population is always responsible for its regime I don't necessarily mean that it shares its views, it just that it lets power to it.

The German population has certainly responsibilities to have let the power to nazis, does it mean a majority of Germans were nazis? You can't watch a society and say that individuals are like that because a society is like that, individuals and societies are just 2 different things. Something you seem to assume when you say any US citizen would be cool with foreigners. You can say 'I think most of US citizens would be cool with foreigners' but never use things like 'never' to speak about it, then you wouldn't have have had the genes comment from me.

Look, I often say one thing and mean something slightly different. I get slammed for trying to correct it. Often I say worse things trying to defend myself. GWB syndrom? Or perhaps Biden syndrom?  

The reason I used never was that Hashemite was implying that westerners were significantly less likely to respect foreigners.

Generally, when my emotions speak (they're pretty retarded) I say stupid stuff that I don't even mean.

[Vepres]

The reason I used never was that Hashemite was implying that westerners were significantly less likely to respect foreigners.

I never insinuated anything remotely close to that. I said, from experience abroad, that a good majority of so-called 'foreigners' are more respectful and well-mannered than a good number of westerners. I never called all westerners rude assholes, nor did I imply that westerners were less likely to be nice to so-called 'foreigners'.

I can see what you meant, though I interpreted it differently. It's one of the things that sets me off.

[Vepres]

Vepres questions how someone can be intelligent if they only got an islamic education. I think that is pretty offensive. But he did say later he meant to say they are ignorant and I would agree with that (and I would include all religions here). Still he did say what he said, which is why he got "attacked".

I meant ignorant, but I have been known to phrase things poorly in the past.

I also think that if I were referring to southern baptists, I wouldn't have been attacked.

[Vepres]

Vepres questions how someone can be intelligent if they only got an islamic education. I think that is pretty offensive. But he did say later he meant to say they are ignorant and I would agree with that (and I would include all religions here). Still he did say what he said, which is why he got "attacked".

I meant ignorant, but I have been known to phrase things poorly in the past.

I also think that if I were referring to southern baptists, I wouldn't have been attacked.

And, of course, you have no basis for thinking that. But keep strawmanning.

Hypocrite

Horrible. The House of Saud's occupation of the Holy Cities must be ended.

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Kindly fuсk off. Thank you.

Xahar put it nicely, but I must ask...hypothetically...someone dedicates his life to a seminary and commits the entire Koran to memory.  Who am I to tell him he isn't intelligent after he pulls off an intellectual feat I could never do?

I'm talking about ONLY a Muslim education. Denying evolution, denying the holocaust, etc. You guys take what I say too literally

If I replaced Muslim with Christian and Saudi Arabia with Arkansas you wouldn't have said anything.

I see what you think Islam is. Classy.

[Vepres]

It's a shame that somebody miswords something and the political correctness police attack him.

[Vepres]

This thread has tempted me to clarify a few things on the reality of Saudi Arabia and to remove any stupid misconceptions, myths and theories which float around. 'Cause they sure do exist.

It's funny, but I was thinking about what you said and my view of Saudi Arabia has changed quite a bit today (I take the whole socratic method and self questioning to the extreme )  

Give your ego a cookie

[Vepres]

Peres questions how someone can be intelligent if they only got an Islamic education. I think that is pretty offensive. But he did say later he meant to say they are ignorant and I would agree with that (and I would include all religions here). Still he did say what he said, which is why he got "attacked".

I meant ignorant, but I have been known to phrase things poorly in the past.

I also think that if I were referring to southern baptists, I wouldn't have been attacked.

Yeah what you actually said was pretty idiotic, but I understand what you actually meant. You seem to have these brain farts a lot.

Those who have been only exposed to religious education, of any background, will tend to be ignorant of reality and will usually be bigoted in some ways.

Excellent Sig BTW.

Not brain farts, but using the wrong word. Sometimes my mind is ahead of my fingers. I can't help but get the feeling I'm related to Biden somehow

Edit: Wait, I got a compliment from Sabine *runs out to get food for the post-apocalyptic world*