Opinion of Saudi Arabia
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Question: Opinion of Saudi Arabia
#1
Freedom Country
 
#2
Horrible Country
 
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Total Voters: 50

Author Topic: Opinion of Saudi Arabia  (Read 5404 times)
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« on: January 21, 2010, 12:11:59 AM »

Might this one be unanimous?
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Bo
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 12:21:15 AM »

HC
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useful idiot
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 12:43:42 AM »

One of the worst countries on earth, obviously.
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Magic 8-Ball
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 12:49:58 AM »

Horrible Country.
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GMantis
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 02:41:09 AM »

I think we already had this one, but in any case my opinion hasn't changed: one of the most horrible countries in the world.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 04:18:27 AM »

Awful awful awful
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 05:32:45 AM »
« Edited: June 17, 2011, 04:03:05 PM by Gangsta Candidate »

There's a story, which is not even an urban legend, that in order to enter KSA you have to declare your relligion, which was problem to many Communist-era diplomats/trade envoys/scientist in Poland, who had to visit KSA. Because you couldn't write "atheist", they accepted "marxist".
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Hash
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 08:00:20 AM »

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 10:06:18 AM »

I love the landscapes, especially around holy cities, though I love mid-east landscapes generally speaking. They managed to make beautiful modern buildings too, though certainly with kinda enslaved workers.

They're kinda racketing all people who wanna go in one of the 2 holy cities.

I find the regime, of course, awful.

Possibly on the edge to become an actual anti-western power, on the short to middle term, from political echoes I had from there.
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Hash
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2010, 10:14:59 AM »

Possibly on the edge to become an actual anti-western power, on the short to middle term, from political echoes I had from there.

Your echoes are quite wrong.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 10:19:04 AM »

Possibly on the edge to become an actual anti-western power, on the short to middle term, from political echoes I had from there.

Your echoes are quite wrong.

Because of political elite more than population. Also, short to middle term, and personally I think rather major political events would have to occur in the region for it to be possible, no matter whether that would today be accurate, I wouldn't ignore such a possibility.
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Hash
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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 10:27:24 AM »

Possibly on the edge to become an actual anti-western power, on the short to middle term, from political echoes I had from there.

Your echoes are quite wrong.

Because of political elite more than population. Also, short to middle term, and personally I think rather major political events would have to occur in the region for it to be possible, no matter whether that would today be accurate, I wouldn't ignore such a possibility.

The elite, the royal family, is large but the majority is pro-western. Those who aren't, like Prince Marsal, are paid to shut up. The Saudi urban class is more and more well-off, and disillusioned with anti-western movements though saying they're all pro-western hacks would be wrong. The majority favours the current situation, which amounts to being pro-western. The government cracks down with an iron hand on those opposed to the regime, and it has proven to be successful. At the same time, it keeps the urban classes happy and quiet with some reformist moves. Trust me, I lived in the country for over 10 years, so I know the actual situation there quite well.

A move against the current setup is a possibility, since anything is possible in the region, but it is very unlikely at least in the short to middle term. As long as the anti-western movement is radical and oppressed, it is quasi-impossible.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 10:54:32 AM »

Possibly on the edge to become an actual anti-western power, on the short to middle term, from political echoes I had from there.

Your echoes are quite wrong.

Because of political elite more than population. Also, short to middle term, and personally I think rather major political events would have to occur in the region for it to be possible, no matter whether that would today be accurate, I wouldn't ignore such a possibility.

The elite, the royal family, is large but the majority is pro-western. Those who aren't, like Prince Marsal, are paid to shut up. The Saudi urban class is more and more well-off, and disillusioned with anti-western movements though saying they're all pro-western hacks would be wrong. The majority favours the current situation, which amounts to being pro-western. The government cracks down with an iron hand on those opposed to the regime, and it has proven to be successful. At the same time, it keeps the urban classes happy and quiet with some reformist moves. Trust me, I lived in the country for over 10 years, so I know the actual situation there quite well.

A move against the current setup is a possibility, since anything is possible in the region, but it is very unlikely at least in the short to middle term. As long as the anti-western movement is radical and oppressed, it is quasi-impossible.

The facts that you can carry out are always worthy. According to what you say all protests have more or less been 'bought' by one way or an other, and that suits with the echoes I had, from guys of which it is the job to study this region by traveling there and listening to all kind of people there, elite and population, they don't speak of political maneuvers or protests, they speak of what people tell them, of the dialogs they have there, that's all.

The 2 biggest issues being of course the outcome in Iran, and the developments in Israel/Palestine.
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2010, 12:14:30 PM »
« Edited: June 17, 2011, 04:04:11 PM by Gangsta Candidate »

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Well, the same goes for Iran, as there are also urban myths.

As much as I dislike Ayatollah Khomeini, when he came to power he declared that Christian and Jewish (yes, there is Jewish minority in Iran since hundreds of years) shall not be oppressed in any way. The unlucky exception are, of course, Baha'i followers.
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Hash
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2010, 05:18:44 PM »

The 2 biggest issues being of course the outcome in Iran, and the developments in Israel/Palestine.

Those issues carry relatively little weight in the Saudi mainstream, all things considered. Partly there's lack of interest by the middle sectors and there's government censorship on major foreign issues.

I can't speak for the rural areas well, and nobody can, but the Saudi middle sector and especially those who work for or close to the government are pure capitalists. Their only worry is personal gain of some sort, with limited interest in other issues except when it threatens their position.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2010, 05:23:51 PM »

The 2 biggest issues being of course the outcome in Iran, and the developments in Israel/Palestine.

Those issues carry relatively little weight in the Saudi mainstream, all things considered. Partly there's lack of interest by the middle sectors and there's government censorship on major foreign issues.

I can't speak for the rural areas well, and nobody can, but the Saudi middle sector and especially those who work for or close to the government are pure capitalists. Their only worry is personal gain of some sort, with limited interest in other issues except when it threatens their position.

Well, as I said in the beginning I speak in case of major events concerning these issues. Israel/Palestine is more for the middle/long term concerning the impact it could have, but, Al Jazeera is censored there??

Iran is the short term issue, and according to what could happen there it could have direct big consequences on KSA, on several levels.
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Hash
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2010, 05:32:49 PM »


No, but Saudi media is, and read what I said about lack of interest.
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2010, 06:15:45 PM »

HC, of course.

I would love to see the reasoning of whoever voted FC.
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Psychic Octopus
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2010, 08:14:34 PM »


Evidently not.
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Vepres
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2010, 09:01:41 PM »

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?
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Vepres
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2010, 09:03:39 PM »

The 2 biggest issues being of course the outcome in Iran, and the developments in Israel/Palestine.

Those issues carry relatively little weight in the Saudi mainstream, all things considered. Partly there's lack of interest by the middle sectors and there's government censorship on major foreign issues.

I can't speak for the rural areas well,
and nobody can, but the Saudi middle sector and especially those who work for or close to the government are pure capitalists. Their only worry is personal gain of some sort, with limited interest in other issues except when it threatens their position.

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't they the majority?

Did you really "live" in Saudi Arabia, or a sheltered area of an urban center for westerners?
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Hash
Hashemite
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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2010, 09:06:51 PM »

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Let's not delve into the stupid stereotypes which are entertained about Arabs or Saudis. I know Saudis and Arabs, they can be Muslim/religious and smart at the same time. And intelligence doesn't equate with support for western concepts of democracy, contrary to the thoughts of most westerners.

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't they the majority?

Urbanisation
82% of total population (2008)

Did you really "live" in Saudi Arabia, or a sheltered area of an urban center for westerners?

Living in a compound doesn't necessarily entail the total and complete isolation of one from society.
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Vepres
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« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2010, 09:08:45 PM »

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Let's not delve into the stupid stereotypes which are entertained about Arabs or Saudis. I know Saudis and Arabs, they can be Muslim/religious and smart at the same time. And intelligence doesn't equate with support for western concepts of democracy, contrary to the thoughts of most westerners.

Perhaps you could define "intelligence".
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Hash
Hashemite
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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2010, 09:13:07 PM »

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Let's not delve into the stupid stereotypes which are entertained about Arabs or Saudis. I know Saudis and Arabs, they can be Muslim/religious and smart at the same time. And intelligence doesn't equate with support for western concepts of democracy, contrary to the thoughts of most westerners.

Perhaps you could define "intelligence".

Having knowledge of facts, information, sound judgement and reason and basic knowledge.

You need to understand that the concept of liberal democracy which we love to spread isn't a universal concept, and in some societies the concept of liberal democracy is foreign and unusual.

Not all Saudis are intelligent, just like not all westerners are intelligent. But saying they're not intelligent is borderline insulting.
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Vepres
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2010, 09:15:54 PM »

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Let's not delve into the stupid stereotypes which are entertained about Arabs or Saudis. I know Saudis and Arabs, they can be Muslim/religious and smart at the same time. And intelligence doesn't equate with support for western concepts of democracy, contrary to the thoughts of most westerners.

Perhaps you could define "intelligence".

Having knowledge of facts, information, sound judgement and reason and basic knowledge.

You need to understand that the concept of liberal democracy which we love to spread isn't a universal concept, and in some societies the concept of liberal democracy is foreign and unusual.

Not all Saudis are intelligent, just like not all westerners are intelligent. But saying they're not intelligent is borderline insulting.

I didn't say that, I was responding you acting like they were superior for some reason.

Liberal democracy isn't universal, no, but the whole world is trending in that direction, if slowly (and not just because of western influence).
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