Opinion of Saudi Arabia

[Hash]

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

[Hash]

Possibly on the edge to become an actual anti-western power, on the short to middle term, from political echoes I had from there.

Your echoes are quite wrong.

[Hash]

Possibly on the edge to become an actual anti-western power, on the short to middle term, from political echoes I had from there.

Your echoes are quite wrong.

Because of political elite more than population. Also, short to middle term, and personally I think rather major political events would have to occur in the region for it to be possible, no matter whether that would today be accurate, I wouldn't ignore such a possibility.

The elite, the royal family, is large but the majority is pro-western. Those who aren't, like Prince Marsal, are paid to shut up. The Saudi urban class is more and more well-off, and disillusioned with anti-western movements though saying they're all pro-western hacks would be wrong. The majority favours the current situation, which amounts to being pro-western. The government cracks down with an iron hand on those opposed to the regime, and it has proven to be successful. At the same time, it keeps the urban classes happy and quiet with some reformist moves. Trust me, I lived in the country for over 10 years, so I know the actual situation there quite well.

A move against the current setup is a possibility, since anything is possible in the region, but it is very unlikely at least in the short to middle term. As long as the anti-western movement is radical and oppressed, it is quasi-impossible.

[Hash]

The 2 biggest issues being of course the outcome in Iran, and the developments in Israel/Palestine.

Those issues carry relatively little weight in the Saudi mainstream, all things considered. Partly there's lack of interest by the middle sectors and there's government censorship on major foreign issues.

I can't speak for the rural areas well, and nobody can, but the Saudi middle sector and especially those who work for or close to the government are pure capitalists. Their only worry is personal gain of some sort, with limited interest in other issues except when it threatens their position.

[Hash]

Al Jazeera is censored there??

No, but Saudi media is, and read what I said about lack of interest.

[Hash]

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Let's not delve into the stupid stereotypes which are entertained about Arabs or Saudis. I know Saudis and Arabs, they can be Muslim/religious and smart at the same time. And intelligence doesn't equate with support for western concepts of democracy, contrary to the thoughts of most westerners.

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't they the majority?

Urbanisation
82% of total population (2008)

Did you really "live" in Saudi Arabia, or a sheltered area of an urban center for westerners?

Living in a compound doesn't necessarily entail the total and complete isolation of one from society.

[Hash]

HC on balance, but living in the country has made me appreciate the people, who are much nicer and intelligent than most westerners. They're not stupid snobs, for one.

Yes, you do need to declare your religion, mostly to know if you're not Jewish. But other stories about arbitrary arrests and executions of foreigners for reasons like religion and so forth are urban myths.

Intelligent people wouldn't tolerate such a regime, and how can you be intelligent if your only given a Muslim education?

Let's not delve into the stupid stereotypes which are entertained about Arabs or Saudis. I know Saudis and Arabs, they can be Muslim/religious and smart at the same time. And intelligence doesn't equate with support for western concepts of democracy, contrary to the thoughts of most westerners.

Perhaps you could define "intelligence".

Having knowledge of facts, information, sound judgement and reason and basic knowledge.

You need to understand that the concept of liberal democracy which we love to spread isn't a universal concept, and in some societies the concept of liberal democracy is foreign and unusual.

Not all Saudis are intelligent, just like not all westerners are intelligent. But saying they're not intelligent is borderline insulting.

[Hash]

I didn't say that, I was responding you acting like they were superior for some reason.

Not superior in intelligence, but quite superior in manners and hospitality. We Westerners tend to be snobs, who take every flipping thing for granted and we treat others with contempt.

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Yes, which explains the slow but certain mini-reforms in Saudi Arabia and the region, no?

[Hash]

I didn't say that, I was responding you acting like they were superior for some reason.

Not superior in intelligence, but quite superior in manners and hospitality. We Westerners tend to be snobs, who take every flipping thing for granted and we treat others with contempt.

In terms of hospitality and manners, I have never seen an American disrespect a foreigner in our country. Contempt? Hardly. I am looking at this from an American perspective, but they hate foreign governments, not foreign people or cultures.

Go in any Arab or Asian country and you'll see that they have superior manners and hospitality than any western country.

[Hash]

Firstly, if your drawing from your experience, you lived in an area DESIGNED for westerns. Venture into regular civilian areas and you probably find a different story.

Well, really, maybe it was a flipping compound but nobody was locked in. Nothing prevented anybody from travelling anywhere. It isn't the DPRK. Stop sprouting stuff you know to be false, or at least don't say stuff you don't know.

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It's not western guilt, it's not that westerners can't be nice, it's just that every Asian-Arab-African-whatever I've met have been extremely well-mannered and, yes, in some cases, more than certain westerners.

[Hash]

The reason I used never was that Hashemite was implying that westerners were significantly less likely to respect foreigners.

I never insinuated anything remotely close to that. I said, from experience abroad, that a good majority of so-called 'foreigners' are more respectful and well-mannered than a good number of westerners. I never called all westerners rude assholes, nor did I imply that westerners were less likely to be nice to so-called 'foreigners'.

[Hash]

This thread has tempted me to clarify a few things on the reality of Saudi Arabia and to remove any stupid misconceptions, myths and theories which float around. 'Cause they sure do exist.