Nader

[elcorazon]

Roy Moore was a good man. Standing up to the Federal Govt is the proper thing to do. They had no right to remove the Ten Commandments. Show me in the constitution where it says, "Seperation of Church and State."

Yeah, we should have a theocracy like Iran.  That'd be better.  
Read your first amendment "establishment of religion" would be akin to church & state being identified as one, I would think.  Semantics, statesrights, semantics.  

On a side note, the framers didn't get EVERYTHING right.  They had political issues to deal with as well.  Don't forget, Slavery was legal then.  Just because the framers wouldn't agree with current interpretations of the constitution doesn't make those interpretations wrong.

Moore's actions were in direct violation of the law, no matter how heartfelt.  While I disagree with the actions of SF's mayor on similar grounds, he had not been previously told by a court not to perform the ceremonies he endorsed, so his actions are more defensible than Moore's in my opinion.

Putting up a monument to the Ten Commandments, which is one of the modern foundations of law is hardly "Establishment" of any religion. Establishment would be Alabama saying "All citizens of the state of Alabama are here by required to worship in a baptist church and MUST show up every Sunday." Our laws are established on religious beliefs, get over it.

Interpretation? Follow it just as it says. Saying, well they meant this when they wrote this is a dangerous road to go down. Moore violated no law. The mayor of San Fran. knowingly violated the law and is continuing to taunt to state and federal government.

Moore was given a specific order to take down the monument.  Even if the order was erroneous in its interpretation of the constitution, it was the LAW, much like the erroneous decision the Supreme Court made giving Dubya the election was the LAW, regardless of how ridiculous it might have been.  Moore's decision to disregard the court order violated the law, a serious issue for a Judge, I'd say.  California courts seem conflicted on what Calif. law is with respect to gay marriage.  I have not studied the issue, so I have no idea what the law is there, but no court had given the SF mayor a direct order not to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.  When that happens (which still has not occurred, to my knowledge) if the mayor continues to allow these unions to occur, his actions will be analogous to Moore's actions.

[??????????]

I believe he was right in disregarding the court order. He felt the so called "law" or "interpretation" is flawed. Which it is for sure. The Feds have no business in such matters, leave it to the states to decide.

[elcorazon]

I believe he was right in disregarding the court order. He felt the so called "law" or "interpretation" is flawed. Which it is for sure. The Feds have no business in such matters, leave it to the states to decide.

I don't think I can argue with you anymore.  You are all over the map.  Disregarding court orders because they are "flawed" is ok, but performing ceremonies which "may" not be sanctioned by state law, but you believe to be allowed by the state constitution, is lawless.  Even I am not that inconsistent.

[??????????]

The law says Civil Unions, Gay marriage whatever you want to call it is NOT allowed. Whoever preforms them is WRONG. Moore is right to disregard the court order because no law says you CAN'T put up a monument to the 10 Commandments.

[CollectiveInterest]

I am far from rich! But my payroll deductions are a lot lower! I make 28k a year, btw. I am working blue collar and have gotten more money back under Bush then I did with Clinton.

How much money was your tax cut? How much has your share  of the national debt increased?

If Bush is just putting a tax cut on the national credit card does  this bother you?

[??????????]

I am far from rich! But my payroll deductions are a lot lower! I make 28k a year, btw. I am working blue collar and have gotten more money back under Bush then I did with Clinton.

How much money was your tax cut? How much has your share  of the national debt increased?

If Bush is just putting a tax cut on the national credit card does  this bother you?

National debt is really meaningless IMHO. Its always been there it will always be there. Its here to stay. The Govt prints its own money, no one is going to come after us for owing money.

[angus]

 But it doesn't have to be here to stay.  I pay my debts.  I bet you do too.  So should our great country.  I know everybody bitched about Reagan's spending into the red.  But I admit, in terms of forcing the Soviet to spend so much and throw themselves off kilter, we showed the world the power of the dollar.  But the world already knew the power of the dollar!  In fact, that's why those Talibaan bastards are frustrated.  I'm just saying that you can't keep running up the tab.  Ever had a big bartender come after you with a bat?  I haven't either.  And I don't want to.

All I'm saying is that I recognize that it is a point of contention in the GOP, and in the electorate in general, that the Fed is printing too much money.  Sure, it grows on trees, but the real value of a dollar can only be worth as much as our total Gross Domestic Product.  And I'm certainly not a protectionist, but we have to consider our severe reliance on foreign labor and foreign capital.  We do need to discuss things rationally, for the good of my family and yours.

I won't mention taxation because I suspect we probably agree on that.  There's a paradox.  I guess we'll just have to cut spending.  But on what then?  I suppose that's how the elections are normally decided.  Maybe not this year though...

[??????????]

But it doesn't have to be here to stay.  I pay my debts.  I bet you do too.  So should our great country.  I know everybody bitched about Reagan's spending into the red.  But I admit, in terms of forcing the Soviet to spend so much and throw themselves off kilter, we showed the world the power of the dollar.  But the world already knew the power of the dollar!  In fact, that's why those Talibaan bastards are frustrated.  I'm just saying that you can't keep running up the tab.  Ever had a big bartender come after you with a bat?  I haven't either.  And I don't want to.

All I'm saying is that I recognize that it is a point of contention in the GOP, and in the electorate in general, that the Fed is printing too much money.  Sure, it grows on trees, but the real value of a dollar can only be worth as much as our total Gross Domestic Product.  And I'm certainly not a protectionist, but we have to consider our severe reliance on foreign labor and foreign capital.  We do need to discuss things rationally, for the good of my family and yours.

I won't mention taxation because I suspect we probably agree on that.  There's a paradox.  I guess we'll just have to cut spending.  But on what then?  I suppose that's how the elections are normally decided.  Maybe not this year though...

Eight Hundred dollar toilet seats dont help. lol If we cut foreign aid I bet we could save a bunch of dough to.

[brassmonkey]

I believe he was right in disregarding the court order. He felt the so called "law" or "interpretation" is flawed. Which it is for sure. The Feds have no business in such matters, leave it to the states to decide.

I don't think I can argue with you anymore.  You are all over the map.  Disregarding court orders because they are "flawed" is ok, but performing ceremonies which "may" not be sanctioned by state law, but you believe to be allowed by the state constitution, is lawless.  Even I am not that inconsistent.

Here is the differance between Moore and the mayor of San Francisco. In California 2/3 of the people voted to ban gay marraige. The mayor is against the will of the people. In Moores case an activist judge in a far away state made a decision for him. Moore doesnt have to obey a judge if he isnt breaking a law in the first place. This judge was taking away Moores right to express his religion in HIS courtroom. And we all know that if put to a vote, 95%+ of the people in Alabama would have voted for Roy Moore to be able to keep his commandments up.

[??????????]

And if the people of Alabama say they want it, then they have every right to keep it.

[Gustaf]

I am far from rich! But my payroll deductions are a lot lower! I make 28k a year, btw. I am working blue collar and have gotten more money back under Bush then I did with Clinton.

How much money was your tax cut? How much has your share  of the national debt increased?

If Bush is just putting a tax cut on the national credit card does  this bother you?

National debt is really meaningless IMHO. Its always been there it will always be there. Its here to stay. The Govt prints its own money, no one is going to come after us for owing money.

What do you mean 'the Govt prints its own money'? Ever heard of infaltion?

[classical liberal]

states rights-

you should really do some research about our financial system before spouting off.  The 40% of our debt that is held in bonds by East Asians is what I'm personally worried about.  If the East Asian nations who are holders of our debt come after the roughly $3,000,000,000,000 they are owed, our stability as a nation is screwed.

[classical liberal]

brassmonkey-

its not his courtroom, your contention is moot.
the public property the is the courtroom is governed by the laws of the land.  the law of the land mean whatever the highest court that interprets them says they mean.  they said the law of the land prohibited the display. end of story.

[Gustaf]

states rights-

you should really do some research about our financial system before spouting off.  The 40% of our debt that is held in bonds by East Asians is what I'm personally worried about.  If the East Asian nations who are holders of our debt come after the roughly $3,000,000,000,000 they are owed, our stability as a nation is screwed.

There's also a little thing called interest rates, a good argument against keeping a debt too big.

[angus]

I can tell you have done your homework for the NO campaign.