I am now an Associate Pastor

[ilikeverin]

I am officially the Associate Pastor at the church where I've been going since the young age of 4 years old.  I've been studying under the Senior Pastor's wing for the past 14 months and am now beginning the process of Ordination.  The process, if everything goes smoothly, should only take about a month to two months.  Ordination, in the Southern Baptist Convention, is a four-step process.  The first step is for the Candidate and the Pastor to sit down and talk and pray together.  The second step is for the Pastor and the Deacons and other Ordained Ministers (Ordaining Council) within the local body to meet and discuss the Candidate's readiness.  The third step, if the Ordaining Council agrees, is for the OC and the Candidate to meet and discuss.  At that time, it will either be determined that the Candidate is ready to be Ordained, or needs to wait a period of time.  If the Candidate is ready to be ordained, then the papers will be signed at that meeting and a Ordination Ceremony will be scheduled for a Sunday morning a few weeks down the road so as to give the Candidate time to invite whom He would like.

While I'm going through the process of Ordination, I am taking on the role of Associate Pastor, assisting the Senior Pastor in delivering the messages on occasion, assisting in the Lord's Supper and Baptisms, and making visitations to the new visitors, shut-ins, and hospitalized, and any other member who can't make it on a regular basis to church.

I won't be paid for this role as my church can't take on another payroll member, but I will be the Associate Pastor anyway.

Congratulations!   That's awesome.

[useful idiot]

Congratulations of course. Your particular flavor of Christianity might not be my own, but I've known a lot of great Evangelicals in my time, attended a Baptist church as a kid that was full of wonderful people, and have been lucky enough to know some good pastors.

It's a big responsibility, as a lot of people will look up to you. I'm glad that un-constructive criticism doesn't deter you from practicing what you feel gives you hope and joy in your life. Some people just want to tear others down to make up for the fact that they're angry at not knowing their place in the world. They're just so cynical that they can't believe that anyone could be happy leading a life that is different from their own. It's a great thing that you can take that negativity and use it for your own good.

[Joe Republic]

i didn't misunderstand anything.  you mocked BushOK's lack of training, I pointed out that that was never God's criteria....then you attempted to provide a diagnosis to explain away my testimony, and I provided a clear test of that diagnosis, and you refuse to apply the test and now are deferring to more qualified individuals.

the point many of us in this thread are trying to make to you is that you're trollishly heckling without an argument.

As I've already said, comparing details of hallucinations you had seventeen years ago with hallucinations some guys had thousands of years ago doesn't seem like a very productive exercise for anybody involved, and isn't relevant to this discussion of BushOK either.

[Joe Republic]

For the others of you getting on to Joe for making fun of me...  Lay off the man!!  I believe my Lord put his posts on this thread to strengthen my beliefs.

Thank you for implying that I'm some kind of puppet.  I govern my own actions, actually.

And this is mainly why I find your new position so disturbing.  You're going to be employing your faulty logic and fantastical beliefs to reinforce the intellectual inferiority of your followers.

I wasn't implying you were a puppet.  Rather, I believe God works everything into His plans, but as humans, we have free will.  You used your free will to post what you did, and I believe that God merely used those posts to refine my beliefs and my calling.  Think of it as a parent using the words of another person to teach his child something.

If I'm not a puppet (and I'm damn well not), and you're supposedly a free-minded individual, then how on earth is God involved?  Even jmfcst sees the illogicality of this view!

[Joe Republic]

I'm glad that un-constructive criticism doesn't deter you from practicing what you feel gives you hope and joy in your life. Some people just want to tear others down to make up for the fact that they're angry at not knowing their place in the world. They're just so cynical that they can't believe that anyone could be happy leading a life that is different from their own. It's a great thing that you can take that negativity and use it for your own good.

Excuse me?  What exactly is my "place in the world"?

Plus, you've completely misunderstood my concern over BushOK's new position.  If you knew anything about me, and you don't, you'd know very well that I'm happy for anybody leading lives different from my own... as long as it doesn't interfere with that very concept itself.  Although he is personally a friendly and harmless guy, BushOK is going to be semi-deliberately preaching misinformation and subtle bigotry.  You only have to read his posted views on the causes of homosexuality, or the future 'apocalypse' fantasy, or Islam to see this.

He didn't create the inherent system among religious folk in Oklahoma of trusting their pastor's every word, and mistrusting 'intellectuals', but he's maintaining it with his new position.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

i didn't misunderstand anything.  you mocked BushOK's lack of training, I pointed out that that was never God's criteria....then you attempted to provide a diagnosis to explain away my testimony, and I provided a clear test of that diagnosis, and you refuse to apply the test and now are deferring to more qualified individuals.

the point many of us in this thread are trying to make to you is that you're trollishly heckling without an argument.

As I've already said, comparing details of hallucinations you had seventeen years ago with hallucinations some guys had thousands of years ago doesn't seem like a very productive exercise for anybody involved

why not? it’s not as if the trail has gone cold - My testimony has been recorded in exquisite detail on this board for years and we have copies of the bible in exquisite detail that date back thousands of years.  Moreover my life is surrounded by those who knew me prior to my conversion and they can attest to my lack of a religious background prior to that night in Oct 92 and they can also attest to the fact that I live my life according to what I claim happened on that night in Oct 92 and that my testimony to them exactly matches the exquisite details I posted on this forum.  Also, the life and sacrifices of the writers of the bible attest to the fact that they believed wholeheartedly in their own testimonies as well.

So, where’s the problem in examining the facts presented in the testimonies to see if they line up?....The only problem I see with you not wanting to take up that challenge is because you know you don’t have a case, for my testimony has been on this forum for years and has been posted several different times and if there was even the slightest inconsistency between my testimony and the testimony of scripture, it would have been pointed out by now.

You can read the testimony of my conversion that I’ve posted on this forum by following the below links (though if we had a better search engine I could probably find more links to my testimony):

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=97314.15

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=28148.60

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=82468.15

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=33859.msg765796#msg765796

and here is a bible to compare my testimony to:

http://www.biblegateway.com/

Let me know if the you need me to clarify any of the details of my conversion, for I love talking about the acts of God I have witnessed!

[Joe Republic]

Somehow you managed to delete perhaps the most important part of my previous post, so here it is again in bold:

As I've already said, comparing details of hallucinations you had seventeen years ago with hallucinations some guys had thousands of years ago doesn't seem like a very productive exercise for anybody involved, and isn't relevant to this discussion of BushOK either.

But feel free to post your ramblings in a different thread so that they don't clog this one up any more, and I'll be happy to ignore them there.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Somehow you managed to delete perhaps the most important part of my previous post, so here it is again in bold:

As I've already said, comparing details of hallucinations you had seventeen years ago with hallucinations some guys had thousands of years ago doesn't seem like a very productive exercise for anybody involved, and isn't relevant to this discussion of BushOK either.

But feel free to post your ramblings in a different thread so that they don't clog this one up any more, and I'll be happy to ignore them there.

But you're the one that made it an issue:

there is the knowledge that can be gained through human effort, and thankfully there is the knowledge that comes only from God:

Although a healthy imagination certainly shouldn't be stifled, I wouldn't say that it necessarily provides knowledge.

[Joe Republic]

I'm going to politely ask you to stop trolling, jmfcst.  It's increasingly annoying, and I've already told you that your attempts to hijack this thread about BushOK's new job are entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

As I said before, if you'd like to continue your diatribes elsewhere, I'd be happy to ignore them there.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I'm going to politely ask you to stop trolling, jmfcst.  It's increasingly annoying, and I've already told you that your attempts to hijack this thread about BushOK's new job are entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

As I said before, if you'd like to continue your diatribes elsewhere, I'd be happy to ignore them there.

Are you aspiring to win the Biggest Hypocrite of the Atlas Forum for 2010 Award, or what?!  You are BY FAR the biggest troll in this thread and have done nothing but disparage BUSHOK's faith and the faith of other Christians through the use of empty innuendo which you have repeatedly refused to lend substance to and you have been admonished by believers and nonbelievers alike to shut up and sit down…and now you’re going to give me a warning?!

Dude, just shut up.  You’re a hypocritical idiot who doesn’t deserve to be a Moderator, for you do nothing in these types of threads but heckle people of faith and you’re too stupid to provide any substantive content to your objections.

And please feel free to forward this post to Dave Leip.  I would do so myself but I don’t think you’re worth the trouble.

[Joe Republic]

Trying to turn this thread into a discussion about me through the use of name-calling is not helping your case.  For the third time, feel free to continue your diatribes elsewhere.  This particular thread is about BushOK's new job, not me, or you.

[Magic 8-Ball]

You don't have to have some kind of religious degree for ordination?

Acts 4:13 "When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus."

Most denominations require one to go through seminary and earn a Master of Divinity.  I found it odd that Southern Baptists don't.

You don't think that a minister would benefit from having studied the sociology and the context of the passages, the often complex symbology of the various books, the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Ancient Greek/whatever to identify possible mistranslations or more literal translations that could help to shed light on a passage's meaning?  Were I to seek counsel from a minister, those are the kinds of things I would want to pop up during the conversation's course.

I wouldn't go under the knife if the surgeon wasn't board certified, I wouldn't hire a lawyer were he not in good standing with the Bar, and I wouldn't trust my taxes to an accountant who hadn't sat for the CPA exam.  It strikes me as a bad idea for people who value spirituality to turn to someone who hasn't done the above and is therefore more prone to mistake the spirit in which the passage was written for something else.

'Courage' and knowledge aren't the same thing, so the quoted verse doesn't really apply.

[Lunar]

Trying to turn this thread into a discussion about me through the use of name-calling is not helping your case.  For the third time, feel free to continue your diatribes elsewhere.  This particular thread is about BushOK's new job, not me, or you.

Indeed, Joe didn't even respond to my masturbation comments, he doesn't seem particularly interested in making this thread about himself.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I'm going to politely ask you to stop trolling, jmfcst.  It's increasingly annoying, and I've already told you that your attempts to hijack this thread about BushOK's new job are entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

As I said before, if you'd like to continue your diatribes elsewhere, I'd be happy to ignore them there.

Ah, pulling mod rank......interesting.

[Joe Republic]

I'm going to politely ask you to stop trolling, jmfcst.  It's increasingly annoying, and I've already told you that your attempts to hijack this thread about BushOK's new job are entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

As I said before, if you'd like to continue your diatribes elsewhere, I'd be happy to ignore them there.

Ah, pulling mod rank......interesting.

Hardly.  Any poster can "politely ask" another poster to stop doing something annoying.  What's more, I don't even moderate this board.

... but you know all of this already.

[useful idiot]

I'm glad that un-constructive criticism doesn't deter you from practicing what you feel gives you hope and joy in your life. Some people just want to tear others down to make up for the fact that they're angry at not knowing their place in the world. They're just so cynical that they can't believe that anyone could be happy leading a life that is different from their own. It's a great thing that you can take that negativity and use it for your own good.

Excuse me?  What exactly is my "place in the world"?

Plus, you've completely misunderstood my concern over BushOK's new position.  If you knew anything about me, and you don't, you'd know very well that I'm happy for anybody leading lives different from my own... as long as it doesn't interfere with that very concept itself.  Although he is personally a friendly and harmless guy, BushOK is going to be semi-deliberately preaching misinformation and subtle bigotry.  You only have to read his posted views on the causes of homosexuality, or the future 'apocalypse' fantasy, or Islam to see this.

He didn't create the inherent system among religious folk in Oklahoma of trusting their pastor's every word, and mistrusting 'intellectuals', but he's maintaining it with his new position.

I wasn't talking about you really. I was responding to his claims that criticism strengthen his faith. If we're talking religion, I'm a lot closer to you than I am to him. I just don't feel the need to pointlessly piss on his birthday cake. And you don't need to tell me about some of the craziness of evangelicals, I grew up as a member of a group hated by evangelicals and I lived in Lynchburg, VA(home of Liberty University). But I knew some evangelicals that weren't so bad, and they were happy. I wouldn't get up in their face and tell them that everything they believe is a fairy tale and yell bigot and homophobe. What would that accomplish?

As for the place in the world comment, some people just aren't content with what they have and if they see people who are happy doing something else they'll try to dampen that person's happiness. Not exactly a new concept....

[Gren]

I do not know BushOK at all, thus I ignore his position on homosexuality. So I hope he doesn't preach Leviticus 18:23 and 20:13. Otherwise, he would also have to mention Exodus 21:7, which sanctions selling one's daughter into slavery. Or even Exodus 31:15, "You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day must be a Sabbath day of complete rest, a holy day dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death."

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I do not know BushOK at all, thus I ignore his position on homosexuality. So I hope he doesn't preach Leviticus 18:23 and 20:13. Otherwise, he would also have to mention Exodus 21:7, which sanctions selling one's daughter into slavery. Or even Exodus 31:15, "You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day must be a Sabbath day of complete rest, a holy day dedicated to the LORD. Anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death."

Hopefully, he'll just use Romans chapter 1:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Notice the connection between the acceptance of other gods and homosexuality, for not only did the two go hand and hand throughout the bible, but as Paul points out, people think they are wise to reject of the supremacy of God and foolishly elevate other paths of worship, and as a result, God darkens their minds and the result is the acceptance of homosexuality.

And that same pattern is being played out in the Old Testament time and time again, and it is playing out on a weekly basis today as more and more Christian sects reject Christ as the only path to God and end up embracing homosexuality.

This is why the New Testament repeatedly warns to keep the supremacy of Christ as a shield against heresy.

[Gren]

I already knew the Bible had several statements against homosexual practice (not homosexuality) . I just wanted to note that many people who call themselves " real christians" actually ignore some parts of the Holy Scriptures, like those I mentioned before, but still criticise those who interpret God's Word in a different way. That's hypocrisy.

[A18]

Exodus 21:7 does not "sanction" selling a daughter into slavery. It introduces verses placing restrictions on the practice.

[Gren]

It might place restrictions on the practice, but it doesn't prohibit it. So it implicitly authorizes girl's slavery. Like it or not, the Bible says a lot of unpleasant things. It's up to you wether you want to believe in them or not. But if you preach against something based on a mere verse, you can't ignore those who may not benefit you. That's all I'm saying.

[A18]

The passage takes a pre-existing practice and places restrictions on it. That certainly tolerates the practice, but there is quite a gap between tolerating something and sanctioning it. (Compare the Fourteenth Amendment's treatment of the suffrage question.)

[Joe Biden 2020]

It might place restrictions on the practice, but it doesn't prohibit it. So it implicitly authorizes girl's slavery. Like it or not, the Bible says a lot of unpleasant things. It's up to you wether you want to believe in them or not. But if you preach against something based on a mere verse, you can't ignore those who may not benefit you. That's all I'm saying.

That's exactly why I don't like to take pluck one verse and take it and run with it.  Rather, I like to look at the chapters before and after, so I get the context of what the verse in question is trying to say.  The only time I will do a one verse sermon would be in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) as there are a lot of good one verse sermons, for instance John 3:16.  Even then, I will use other scriptures to aid in the deliverance of the messages

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I already knew the Bible had several statements against homosexual practice (not homosexuality) . I just wanted to note that many people who call themselves " real christians" actually ignore some parts of the Holy Scriptures, like those I mentioned before, but still criticise those who interpret God's Word in a different way. That's hypocrisy.

you do realize, don't you, that Christians are NOT bound by the laws of the OT?!

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

You don't have to have some kind of religious degree for ordination?

Acts 4:13 "When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus."

Most denominations require one to go through seminary and earn a Master of Divinity.  I found it odd that Southern Baptists don't.

You don't think that a minister would benefit from having studied the sociology and the context of the passages, the often complex symbology of the various books, the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Ancient Greek/whatever to identify possible mistranslations or more literal translations that could help to shed light on a passage's meaning?  Were I to seek counsel from a minister, those are the kinds of things I would want to pop up during the conversation's course.

I wouldn't go under the knife if the surgeon wasn't board certified, I wouldn't hire a lawyer were he not in good standing with the Bar, and I wouldn't trust my taxes to an accountant who hadn't sat for the CPA exam.  It strikes me as a bad idea for people who value spirituality to turn to someone who hasn't done the above and is therefore more prone to mistake the spirit in which the passage was written for something else.

'Courage' and knowledge aren't the same thing, so the quoted verse doesn't really apply.

Yes the quote does apply because it is stated that Peter and John were “unschooled”…they weren’t schooled, rather they were just going about their business one day when Christ came into their life and called them into his ministry.

The only requirements I know of are these:

Titus 1:6 "An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. 9He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it."