Possible Tax Systems for the United States

[Frodo]

Which tax systems (or combination of the above) at the national level do you regard as the most likely to improve the economic competitiveness of the United States, including increasing the savings rate, creating a climate more conducive to investment, as well as increasing revenues to fund our social programs?  

For reference purposes, here are some Wiki links:

Progressive income tax

Flat tax

Carbon tax

Capital Gains tax

Sales tax

Real Property Use tax

Inheritance tax

Value-Added/Goods & Services tax

Tariffs

Corporate tax

Excise tax

Expatriation tax

Poll tax

Wealth tax

[Ban my account ffs!]

Progressive Income Tax
Capital Gains Tax  (progressive)
Corporate Tax  (a progressive corporate tax)
Wealth Tax  (only for the very rich.. incomes <$1,000,000/year)

[Marokai Backbeat]

The progressive tax structure has worked rather well, at least, back when it was actually a progressive income tax. It's been lowered to historically anemic levels, of course, and is little better than a flat tax at the moment when you think about it, but I'll take the progressive tax system with a bunch of others on the side, such as the inheritance tax, sales taxes, wealth taxes, carbon taxes, capital gains taxes, corporate taxes, and limited tariffs. It really takes a combination of most of them to get a good system, one tax won't carry it all.

[Torie]

Progressive Income tax    
Capital Gains tax         
Sales tax         
Real Property Use tax         
Inheritance tax     

I kind of like the system we have now. Needless to say, I would not be too fond of a wealth tax on what I have left after paying all those income taxes for a zillion years!     

[Alexander Hamilton]

Flat Tax
Tariffs
Corporate Tax
Excise Tax

[k-onmmunist]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

[Torie]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

I take it you are a Veblen fan, who hated rents?

[k-onmmunist]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

I take it you are a Veblen fan, who hated rents?

I'm a Georgist basically. Though I'd prefer there were no taxes and no state at all to be completely honest with you.

[Torie]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

I take it you are a Veblen fan, who hated rents?

I'm a Georgist basically. Though I'd prefer there were no taxes and no state at all to be completely honest with you.

Ya, I mixed up Veblen and George. I meant George now that I did a wiki of both men.

Regarding the matter of doing away with "the state," that brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, this one from Hobbs:  "Living in a state of nature is at once brutish and short."  

[k-onmmunist]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

I take it you are a Veblen fan, who hated rents?

I'm a Georgist basically. Though I'd prefer there were no taxes and no state at all to be completely honest with you.

Regarding the matter of doing away with "the state," that brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, this one from Hobbs:  "Living in a state of nature is at once brutish and short."   

Meh. I never said I didn't agree with governance, just not the sort we have now. Communes/unions would be a fine organisation for government.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

I take it you are a Veblen fan, who hated rents?

I'm a Georgist basically. Though I'd prefer there were no taxes and no state at all to be completely honest with you.

Regarding the matter of doing away with "the state," that brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, this one from Hobbs:  "Living in a state of nature is at once brutish and short."   

Meh. I never said I didn't agree with governance, just not the sort we have now. Communes/unions would be a fine organisation for government.

     That reminds me of an observation I once made that most non-anarchists think that anarchists want to return to a "state of nature", even though few if any anarchists actually advocate such a thing.

[k-onmmunist]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

I take it you are a Veblen fan, who hated rents?

I'm a Georgist basically. Though I'd prefer there were no taxes and no state at all to be completely honest with you.

Regarding the matter of doing away with "the state," that brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, this one from Hobbs:  "Living in a state of nature is at once brutish and short."   

Meh. I never said I didn't agree with governance, just not the sort we have now. Communes/unions would be a fine organisation for government.

     That reminds me of an observation I once made that most non-anarchists think that anarchists want to return to a "state of nature", even though few if any anarchists actually advocate such a thing.

Pretty much true apart from some green anarchists/anarcho-primitivists (who I have sympathies with to some extent)

[Associate Justice PiT]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

I take it you are a Veblen fan, who hated rents?

I'm a Georgist basically. Though I'd prefer there were no taxes and no state at all to be completely honest with you.

Regarding the matter of doing away with "the state," that brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, this one from Hobbs:  "Living in a state of nature is at once brutish and short."   

Meh. I never said I didn't agree with governance, just not the sort we have now. Communes/unions would be a fine organisation for government.

     That reminds me of an observation I once made that most non-anarchists think that anarchists want to return to a "state of nature", even though few if any anarchists actually advocate such a thing.

Pretty much true apart from some green anarchists/anarcho-primitivists (who I have sympathies with to some extent)

     I find anarcho-primitivism rather silly since supporting a population living in a hunter-gatherer state would be very difficult. Even if people still used modern weapons like guns, I expect the maximum limit on the world's human population in that state would be less than 1% of the current actual population. Probably much less.

[k-onmmunist]

Land value tax and consumption duties.

I take it you are a Veblen fan, who hated rents?

I'm a Georgist basically. Though I'd prefer there were no taxes and no state at all to be completely honest with you.

Regarding the matter of doing away with "the state," that brings to mind one of my favorite quotes, this one from Hobbs:  "Living in a state of nature is at once brutish and short."   

Meh. I never said I didn't agree with governance, just not the sort we have now. Communes/unions would be a fine organisation for government.

     That reminds me of an observation I once made that most non-anarchists think that anarchists want to return to a "state of nature", even though few if any anarchists actually advocate such a thing.

Pretty much true apart from some green anarchists/anarcho-primitivists (who I have sympathies with to some extent)

     I find anarcho-primitivism rather silly since supporting a population living in a hunter-gatherer state would be very difficult. Even if people still used modern weapons like guns, I expect the maximum limit on the world's human population in that state would be less than 1% of the current actual population. Probably much less.

Yeah, I guess so. I support re-wilding on an individual basis, but I'm afraid that it's self defeating - human curiosity will simply cause the re-invention of everything eventually.

[Vepres]

Flat Income Tax
Capital Gains (flat)
Corporate (only 2 or 3 brackets)

[Magic 8-Ball]

Progressive Income tax
Capital Gains tax (progressive, with rates depending on its proportion to income)
Sales Tax
Corporate Tax
Excise Tax

[Torie]

What is the difference between primitivist anarchism, and main stream anarchism?  If the main stream wants private police forces and armies to maintain order, I suspect that will rapidly devolve into a state of nature, or more likely, a dictatorship, by the guy who hires the largest number of guns, and then makes alliances with other "war lords" to take over. You guys aren't serious about all of this are you, or are you? 

[Associate Justice PiT]

What is the difference between primitivist anarchism, and main stream anarchism?  If the main stream wants private police forces and armies to maintain order, I suspect that will rapidly devolve into a state of nature, or more likely, a dictatorship, by the guy who hires the largest number of guns, and then makes alliances with other "war lords" to take over. You guys aren't serious about all of this are you, or are you? 

     I considered myself an anarchist for a time, but then I realized that it was basically unrealistic.

     The idea though is that people will combine into voluntary government bodies & rely on private police forces, citizen militias, & mutual defense pacts with other government bodies for self-protection. Then again, you could have Bill Gates hire a mercenary army & overrun a large number of government bodies, so make of that what you will.

[Sewer]

Corporate is the best.

[Torie]

Corporate is the best.

About two thirds of the corporate income tax is effectively a sales tax, in the sense that about that percentage of the corporate income  tax goes into higher prices for the goods and services produced, as a cost of doing business, since capital is looking at the after tax return. But if you like sales taxes, regressive though they are, then fine. Europe by the way, has lower corporate income taxes than the US in general, because the policy makers there understand that, among other things.

[Mint]

Yeah but there's so many loopholes major corporations typically manage not to pay.

[Sewer]

Corporate is the best.

About two thirds of the corporate income tax is effectively a sales tax, in the sense that about that percentage of the corporate income  tax goes into higher prices for the goods and services produced, as a cost of doing business, since capital is looking at the after tax return. But if you like sales taxes, regressive though they are, then fine. Europe by the way, has lower corporate income taxes than the US in general, because the policy makers there understand that, among other things.

bullsh**t economics

[Ban my account ffs!]

Corporate is the best.

About two thirds of the corporate income tax is effectively a sales tax, in the sense that about that percentage of the corporate income  tax goes into higher prices for the goods and services produced, as a cost of doing business, since capital is looking at the after tax return. But if you like sales taxes, regressive though they are, then fine. Europe by the way, has lower corporate income taxes than the US in general, because the policy makers there understand that, among other things.

I agree.  I think the main form of taxation should be a progressive income tax.  Lower corporate taxes to a competitive level and all but eliminate taxes on small businesses.

Make it cheaper to start a business than it is to shove your wealth into a savings account...

I think that makes the most sense.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Flat tax, sales tax, and (if needed) property tax.

[Mint]

Flat tax, sales tax, and (if needed) property tax.

I'd settle for this, although I'd prefer no federal income tax. Also the current Expatriation Tax and (retaliatory) Tariffs.