Does the Jesus Christ Party have an effective monopoly over Atlasian politics?

[Alexander Hamilton]

The DA does well because of the JCP though. The LNF or ARC would do just as well if the JCP picked us. Basically the same success rate of any party that chooses to ride on the JCP's coattails.

Which is essentially true, and what I meant by this:

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The DA, while a fine organization that I once considered joining, is, basically, a me-too Party. And while I like a vast majority of its members on a personal level, I don't know that it, as an entity, can really offer any but token resistance to the JCP.

Agreed, and if there were any way we could force a realignment, our common ideals would be more successful.

[Alexander Hamilton]

The DA also gets plenty of outside support from like-minded people in or formerly from the RPP, Hamilton. They are not our slaves, nor will we ever treat them like the RPP has.

This is sheer sucking-up. The DA gets support, but not due to ideology. You are much closer to Lewis Trondheim than afleitch. Why not support Lewis, Marokai?

[Хahar 🤔]

The LNF has offered and does offer genuine opposition: not just to the transitory aspects of the game, to whoever the controversial figure of the day is, but to the system as a whole, to the flawed paradigm that has nonetheless taken root.

[Alexander Hamilton]

The DA first needs to admit their role as JCP enablers. As long as they get to keep their power (Hashemite in the NE, two at-large seats, and a cabinet position), they will do all they can to help the JCP.

Let's bring politics away from cronyism and back to ideology.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The DA does well because of the JCP though. The LNF or ARC would do just as well if the JCP picked us. Basically the same success rate of any party that chooses to ride on the JCP's coattails.

Which is essentially true, and what I meant by this:

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The DA, while a fine organization that I once considered joining, is, basically, a me-too Party. And while I like a vast majority of its members on a personal level, I don't know that it, as an entity, can really offer any but token resistance to the JCP.

Agreed, and if there were any way we could force a realignment, our common ideals would be more successful.

Common ideals? You make it seem like the JCP and DA never find anything in common. We find socially liberal positions in common quite often, and JCP and DA Senators often have found agreement on economic matters as well. They're not some abused minority that don't get anything they want passed, for heaven's sake.

This fake boohooing is really getting old.

Further, the DA runs on not on their positions, though that is obviously a major factor, but also their integrity and their maturity. And the problem is many on the right outside the DA, are, in fact, insane/stupid/not serious about the game. That often causes problems.

The DA also gets plenty of outside support from like-minded people in or formerly from the RPP, Hamilton. They are not our slaves, nor will we ever treat them like the RPP has.

This is sheer sucking-up. The DA gets support, but not due to ideology. You are much closer to Lewis Trondheim than afleitch. Why not support Lewis, Marokai?

Then why have Afleitch and I agreed on the majority of issues in the Senate? We voted together on healthcare. We voted together on stimulus. We voted together on taxes. We voted together on most safety-net expansions.

Further, as I said above, the DA and JCP get along because we're nice groups of people that like working together and taking the game seriously. We don't get power hungry, we don't make demands, and we do our jobs, and we do it with each other in mind.

You all are mostly concerned with "OMG WE MUST TAKE POWER WHATEVER WILL WE DO WITHOUT IIIIITTT!!11" Which is not the DA's attitude.

[jokerman]

I have advocated a realignment for a while...

A social-democratic party
A conservative party
A "populist" Farmer-Labor-esque party
A party for economic moderate/social libertarians

If I did'nt love my DA brothers so I would personally found this party

I think you ought to. I think you, and Democratic Hawk, and Tmthforu94, and benconstine, all have the makings of a nucleus that could interrupt the system, just as I and PiT and Mecha and Hamilton do.

Don't listen to this heresy!  Party first, always.

[Scam of God]

The LNF has offered and does offer genuine opposition: not just to the transitory aspects of the game, to whoever the controversial figure of the day is, but to the system as a whole, to the flawed paradigm that has nonetheless taken root.

Aye, but the LNF is a non-ideological catch-all Party for the disgruntled - good for a protest vote, but hardly a governing Party.

[Badger]

The LNF has offered and does offer genuine opposition: not just to the transitory aspects of the game, to whoever the controversial figure of the day is, but to the system as a whole, to the flawed paradigm that has nonetheless taken root.

Aye, but the LNF is a non-ideological catch-all Party for the disgruntled - good for a protest vote, but hardly a governing Party.

Yet. ;-)

[Alexander Hamilton]

The LNF has offered and does offer genuine opposition: not just to the transitory aspects of the game, to whoever the controversial figure of the day is, but to the system as a whole, to the flawed paradigm that has nonetheless taken root.

Aye, but the LNF is a non-ideological catch-all Party for the disgruntled - good for a protest vote, but hardly a governing Party.

Exactly.

I enjoyed my stay, but I need something more legitimate.

[Scam of God]

Common ideals? You make it seem like the JCP and DA never find anything in common. We find socially liberal positions in common quite often, and JCP and DA Senators often have found agreement on economic matters as well. They're not some abused minority that don't get anything they want passed, for heaven's sake.

Which is precisely the point and the problem, methinks - you agree too much, to the ultimate effect that makes it seem as if a vote for the DA is a vote for the JCP by proxy.

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Sure, I don't deny this. But you have compounded the problem by automatically labeling all right-leaning newcomers to the game 'zombies'. PiT never invited me; I came.

[MaxQue]

We do well because we're not run by crazy party dictators (Bgwah has a decidedly laid-back style) or lashing out at every other party.

News to me. Especially the parenthetical part.

Bgwah has never tried to be involved in one of my decisions and he never tried to influence my vote in an election or in Senate. If that weren't for conventions, I would never hear of him as a leader.

And you know than I have a problem with strong leaderships, I already had this problem in the SDP.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I was recruited by the RPP and am now widely considered their worst enemy. I don't regret that. I belong in a party with economic moderates and social libertarians.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Common ideals? You make it seem like the JCP and DA never find anything in common. We find socially liberal positions in common quite often, and JCP and DA Senators often have found agreement on economic matters as well. They're not some abused minority that don't get anything they want passed, for heaven's sake.

Which is precisely the point and the problem, methinks - you agree too much, to the ultimate effect that makes it seem as if a vote for the DA is a vote for the JCP by proxy.

The DA is not just the moderate liberal/moderate libertarian party, though. A commonly forgotten fact is that they're also the mature party not interested in cutthroat tactics, secrecy, and viciously plotting the demise of other parties. We find a good deal in common with them on these issues as well. They also like doing their jobs and voting properly, the latter the LNF seems to have an unfortunate problem with.

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Sure, I don't deny this. But you have compounded the problem by automatically labeling all right-leaning newcomers to the game 'zombies'. PiT never invited me;  
[/quote]

Hamilton recently invited someone to Atlasia that literally asked what they were supposed to do next. Try to convince me the DA wants anything to do with that.

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This wins the "creepy when out of context" award.

[bgwah]

Sure, I don't deny this. But you have compounded the problem by automatically labeling all right-leaning newcomers to the game 'zombies'. PiT never invited me; I came.

Yeah, I invited you!

[Sewer]

The LNF has offered and does offer genuine opposition: not just to the transitory aspects of the game, to whoever the controversial figure of the day is, but to the system as a whole, to the flawed paradigm that has nonetheless taken root.

Aye, but the LNF is a non-ideological catch-all Party for the disgruntled - good for a protest vote, but hardly a governing Party.

The LNF is for loonies and leftists.

[Alexander Hamilton]

The DA is not just the moderate liberal/moderate libertarian party, though. A commonly forgotten fact is that they're also the mature party not interested in cutthroat tactics, secrecy, and viciously plotting the demise of other parties. We find a good deal in common with them on these issues as well. They also like doing their jobs and voting properly, the latter the LNF seems to have an unfortunate problem with.

They've engaged in cutthroat tactics and secrecy before.

[Scam of God]

The DA is not just the moderate liberal/moderate libertarian party,

Nor should they be, as that is what the JCP (ostensibly) is. In order for the game to function properly and come close to accurately reflecting real-life Party politics, there has to be enough room for some ideological light to shine through.

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Sure, but competency alone doesn't win elections, as we've so often seen IRL. I like the DA, honestly, and I fear that it will always have also-ran status because of its inability to distance itself from you. It is possible to be both competent and ideologically opposed to the JCP.

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Alright. The thing to do then, it seems to me, would be to evaluate these instances on a case-by-case basis - a hegemony of long-term players would probably get old very fast, which is what the current policies on the subject are going to rapidly lead to.

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That was entirely the point.

[Alexander Hamilton]

People can criticize me all they want, but many of the people I have encouraged to join have become very active members. I consider it a positive impact. Of course, I can see that from an entrenched elite's perspective it is the absolute worst.

[Хahar 🤔]

The LNF has offered and does offer genuine opposition: not just to the transitory aspects of the game, to whoever the controversial figure of the day is, but to the system as a whole, to the flawed paradigm that has nonetheless taken root.

Aye, but the LNF is a non-ideological catch-all Party for the disgruntled - good for a protest vote, but hardly a governing Party.

Perhaps that is so, but this is not yet the time for ideologization.

We do well because we're not run by crazy party dictators (Bgwah has a decidedly laid-back style) or lashing out at every other party.

News to me. Especially the parenthetical part.

Bgwah has never tried to be involved in one of my decisions and he never tried to influence my vote in an election or in Senate. If that weren't for conventions, I would never hear of him as a leader.

And you know than I have a problem with strong leaderships, I already had this problem in the SDP.

The SDP had the weakest leadership possible during its heyday.

Common ideals? You make it seem like the JCP and DA never find anything in common. We find socially liberal positions in common quite often, and JCP and DA Senators often have found agreement on economic matters as well. They're not some abused minority that don't get anything they want passed, for heaven's sake.

Which is precisely the point and the problem, methinks - you agree too much, to the ultimate effect that makes it seem as if a vote for the DA is a vote for the JCP by proxy.

The DA is not just the moderate liberal/moderate libertarian party, though. A commonly forgotten fact is that they're also the mature party not interested in cutthroat tactics, secrecy, and viciously plotting the demise of other parties. We find a good deal in common with them on these issues as well. They also like doing their jobs and voting properly, the latter the LNF seems to have an unfortunate problem with.

Hmm?

[Alexander Hamilton]

Bring back the SDP.
Bring back the NLC.
Bring back the ACA.
Bring back the CDP.

A perfect party system that will produce competitive elections.

[Хahar 🤔]

I'm not sure if so many parties can coexist.

[Sewer]

Bring back the SDP.
Bring back the NLC.
Bring back the ACA.
Bring back the CDP.

A perfect party system that will produce competitive elections.

I like this.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I'm not sure if so many parties can coexist.

4 parties?

We have 5 now.

[Scam of God]

I'm not sure if so many parties can coexist.

I certainly think they could. The total vote threshold to win an election would be lowered, but at the same time you'd have something more representative, which I'd consider to be more truly democratic. It would certainly equalize the disparity between social and economic-issue voters.

[MaxQue]

We do well because we're not run by crazy party dictators (Bgwah has a decidedly laid-back style) or lashing out at every other party.

News to me. Especially the parenthetical part.

Bgwah has never tried to be involved in one of my decisions and he never tried to influence my vote in an election or in Senate. If that weren't for conventions, I would never hear of him as a leader.

And you know than I have a problem with strong leaderships, I already had this problem in the SDP.

The SDP had the weakest leadership possible during its heyday.
[/quote]

Exactly, and I was one of the two leaders during all the history of that party. I didn't wanted to force members to vote our way, because I dislike leaders like that.