I'm leaving the Catholic Church... for good.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Nice to see someone else on this thread thinking about joining the RCC

I grew up in a mixed Mormon/Catholic household. I'd always identified with the Mormon side more, despite attending Catholic school and attending mass nearly every week for about 5 years. I'm still technically a member of the LDS church but not of the Catholic. Recently in the last couple month I've started going back to mass just to see how it felt after being away and I'm finding I enjoy it a great deal, and I'm actually considering pursuing what would be the natural next step....

I don't think jokerman was being serious... I could be wrong, but I get the sense he is attempting to put one over on me.

That being said, if either one of you, or anyone else has any questions about anything concerning the Church, both practices and beliefs, I would be happy to provide answers.

What kind of Catholic are you?

[12th Doctor]

Nice to see someone else on this thread thinking about joining the RCC

I grew up in a mixed Mormon/Catholic household. I'd always identified with the Mormon side more, despite attending Catholic school and attending mass nearly every week for about 5 years. I'm still technically a member of the LDS church but not of the Catholic. Recently in the last couple month I've started going back to mass just to see how it felt after being away and I'm finding I enjoy it a great deal, and I'm actually considering pursuing what would be the natural next step....

I don't think jokerman was being serious... I could be wrong, but I get the sense he is attempting to put one over on me.

That being said, if either one of you, or anyone else has any questions about anything concerning the Church, both practices and beliefs, I would be happy to provide answers.

What kind of Catholic are you?

Roman... not sure if that's the category of answer you were looking for.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Nice to see someone else on this thread thinking about joining the RCC

I grew up in a mixed Mormon/Catholic household. I'd always identified with the Mormon side more, despite attending Catholic school and attending mass nearly every week for about 5 years. I'm still technically a member of the LDS church but not of the Catholic. Recently in the last couple month I've started going back to mass just to see how it felt after being away and I'm finding I enjoy it a great deal, and I'm actually considering pursuing what would be the natural next step....

I don't think jokerman was being serious... I could be wrong, but I get the sense he is attempting to put one over on me.

That being said, if either one of you, or anyone else has any questions about anything concerning the Church, both practices and beliefs, I would be happy to provide answers.

What kind of Catholic are you?

Roman... not sure if that's the category of answer you were looking for.

Well you have the Ukrainian flag in your profile, so I was just curious whether you were an Eastern-rite Catholic or Latin-rite.

[12th Doctor]

Nice to see someone else on this thread thinking about joining the RCC

I grew up in a mixed Mormon/Catholic household. I'd always identified with the Mormon side more, despite attending Catholic school and attending mass nearly every week for about 5 years. I'm still technically a member of the LDS church but not of the Catholic. Recently in the last couple month I've started going back to mass just to see how it felt after being away and I'm finding I enjoy it a great deal, and I'm actually considering pursuing what would be the natural next step....

I don't think jokerman was being serious... I could be wrong, but I get the sense he is attempting to put one over on me.

That being said, if either one of you, or anyone else has any questions about anything concerning the Church, both practices and beliefs, I would be happy to provide answers.

What kind of Catholic are you?

Roman... not sure if that's the category of answer you were looking for.

Well you have the Ukrainian flag in your profile, so I was just curious whether you were an Eastern-rite Catholic or Latin-rite.

Oh... ha... no.  I'm just a supporter of Ukraine (and all the Eastern European countries), as in opposition to Russia.  I'm not Ukrainian in anyway.

[titaniumtux]

Wow, this thread has been quite amusing. This could have triggered a massive flamewar...good thing everyone caught on that it was a joke.

Pope Ben XVI is everybody's homeboy

[ilikeverin]

I haven't been on here for a while, because I have been doing alot of thinking.  After all the recent scandals, my faith in Catholicism has been severely tested.  I have come to realize that Catholicism is evil.  The representatives of the institutional church are what really matter, and be that as it may, the Catholic Church has had some bad people in it in the past and present.  Clearly that taints the entire message of their teachings.  I was so blind not to see it before.

I owe my thanks to BRTD.  I never thought I would say this... but he has convinced me, he really has.  His constant dogging, and haranguing of the RCC have been effective.  He has clearly shown me that no other organization has the same problems as the Catholic Church, and so there must be something fundamentally evil about it.  It can't be fixed.  It can't be dealt with.  It must be destroyed... both it and its Nazi Pope.

I am also going tomorrow to have all my Irish DNA surgically removed from my body.  Again, BRTD has convinced me that I want nothing more to do with that vile heritage, of a people who are clearly to blame for a vast share of all the wrong in the world.  The procedure will be painful, and there is a 99% likelyhood of my death, so if you don't hear from me again, know that I died for a noble cause, to purge the world or such a terrible heritage.

Wish me luck everyone.  FUCK THE NAZI POPE!!!!!

Dagnabbit!  And I had just entered seminary because of your pro-Catholic propaganda!  Now I'm gonna have to get rid of all my "Benny is my Homeboy" t-shirts and throw out my rosary

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

[12th Doctor]

Nice to see someone else on this thread thinking about joining the RCC

I grew up in a mixed Mormon/Catholic household. I'd always identified with the Mormon side more, despite attending Catholic school and attending mass nearly every week for about 5 years. I'm still technically a member of the LDS church but not of the Catholic. Recently in the last couple month I've started going back to mass just to see how it felt after being away and I'm finding I enjoy it a great deal, and I'm actually considering pursuing what would be the natural next step....

I don't think jokerman was being serious... I could be wrong, but I get the sense he is attempting to put one over on me.

That being said, if either one of you, or anyone else has any questions about anything concerning the Church, both practices and beliefs, I would be happy to provide answers.

What kind of Catholic are you?

Roman... not sure if that's the category of answer you were looking for.

Well you have the Ukrainian flag in your profile, so I was just curious whether you were an Eastern-rite Catholic or Latin-rite.

Oh... ha... no.  I'm just a supporter of Ukraine (and all the Eastern European countries), as in opposition to Russia.  I'm not Ukrainian in anyway.

Now, granted, when I was in college I regularly attended Byzantine services, for the plain and simple fact that the Byzantine mass kicks ass compared to our post-Vatican II prayer meeting, feel good, holiday specials.

[useful idiot]

Nice to see someone else on this thread thinking about joining the RCC

I grew up in a mixed Mormon/Catholic household. I'd always identified with the Mormon side more, despite attending Catholic school and attending mass nearly every week for about 5 years. I'm still technically a member of the LDS church but not of the Catholic. Recently in the last couple month I've started going back to mass just to see how it felt after being away and I'm finding I enjoy it a great deal, and I'm actually considering pursuing what would be the natural next step....

I don't think jokerman was being serious... I could be wrong, but I get the sense he is attempting to put one over on me.

That being said, if either one of you, or anyone else has any questions about anything concerning the Church, both practices and beliefs, I would be happy to provide answers.

What kind of Catholic are you?

Roman... not sure if that's the category of answer you were looking for.

Well you have the Ukrainian flag in your profile, so I was just curious whether you were an Eastern-rite Catholic or Latin-rite.

Oh... ha... no.  I'm just a supporter of Ukraine (and all the Eastern European countries), as in opposition to Russia.  I'm not Ukrainian in anyway.

Now, granted, when I was in college I regularly attended Byzantine services, for the plain and simple fact that the Byzantine mass kicks ass compared to our post-Vatican II prayer meeting, feel good, holiday specials.

Fortunately in my area we have a Tridentine mass parish, and I've been thinking of attending it, even though I've enjoyed the church near my school quite a bit....

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Nice to see someone else on this thread thinking about joining the RCC

I grew up in a mixed Mormon/Catholic household. I'd always identified with the Mormon side more, despite attending Catholic school and attending mass nearly every week for about 5 years. I'm still technically a member of the LDS church but not of the Catholic. Recently in the last couple month I've started going back to mass just to see how it felt after being away and I'm finding I enjoy it a great deal, and I'm actually considering pursuing what would be the natural next step....

I don't think jokerman was being serious... I could be wrong, but I get the sense he is attempting to put one over on me.

That being said, if either one of you, or anyone else has any questions about anything concerning the Church, both practices and beliefs, I would be happy to provide answers.

What kind of Catholic are you?

Roman... not sure if that's the category of answer you were looking for.

Well you have the Ukrainian flag in your profile, so I was just curious whether you were an Eastern-rite Catholic or Latin-rite.

Oh... ha... no.  I'm just a supporter of Ukraine (and all the Eastern European countries), as in opposition to Russia.  I'm not Ukrainian in anyway.

Now, granted, when I was in college I regularly attended Byzantine services, for the plain and simple fact that the Byzantine mass kicks ass compared to our post-Vatican II prayer meeting, feel good, holiday specials.

Fortunately in my area we have a Tridentine mass parish, and I've been thinking of attending it, even though I've enjoyed the church near my school quite a bit....

You are very fortunate. I just can't stand the Novus Ordo service, especially the way it is done around here by Jesuits...

[12th Doctor]

Nice to see someone else on this thread thinking about joining the RCC

I grew up in a mixed Mormon/Catholic household. I'd always identified with the Mormon side more, despite attending Catholic school and attending mass nearly every week for about 5 years. I'm still technically a member of the LDS church but not of the Catholic. Recently in the last couple month I've started going back to mass just to see how it felt after being away and I'm finding I enjoy it a great deal, and I'm actually considering pursuing what would be the natural next step....

I don't think jokerman was being serious... I could be wrong, but I get the sense he is attempting to put one over on me.

That being said, if either one of you, or anyone else has any questions about anything concerning the Church, both practices and beliefs, I would be happy to provide answers.

What kind of Catholic are you?

Roman... not sure if that's the category of answer you were looking for.

Well you have the Ukrainian flag in your profile, so I was just curious whether you were an Eastern-rite Catholic or Latin-rite.

Oh... ha... no.  I'm just a supporter of Ukraine (and all the Eastern European countries), as in opposition to Russia.  I'm not Ukrainian in anyway.

Now, granted, when I was in college I regularly attended Byzantine services, for the plain and simple fact that the Byzantine mass kicks ass compared to our post-Vatican II prayer meeting, feel good, holiday specials.

Fortunately in my area we have a Tridentine mass parish, and I've been thinking of attending it, even though I've enjoyed the church near my school quite a bit....

You are very fortunate. I just can't stand the Novus Ordo service, especially the way it is done around here by Jesuits...

Jesuits... my God, man.  How do you survive?  When I was in college, the university had a priest who said mass who did things that I am almost certain were not only explicitly opposed to the disciples of the mass, but downright anti-canonical.

What happened to the Jesuits?  They used to be the orthodox Catholic organization.  Now they are packed with liberation theologians and other sorts of people who are, at best, of highly dubious Catholicity.

I did briefly consider joining the Jesuits, though, because I figured that if I were going to go into the religious life, I might as well go all the way, and because of their emphasis on education.

We have a Tridentine Church around here, but the masses are pretty inconveniently timed, for me, and it is on the otherside of town (in fact, I think its technically outside of the city).  Plus, those people are nuts.  Half of them are closet sede vacante types.  I was shocked when I walked in there the first time, the congregation was mostly middle-aged people, not the 80 and Up crowd that you expect at... well, most masses, actually, but particularly churches doing the Tridentine mass.  Some of these people drive, literally, an hour (both ways) to go there.

I prefer the Tridentine mass, but Novus Ordo doesn't offend me, the way it does some other people.  I just think it lacks any element that could be nominally identified as specifically Catholic.  The Tridentine format is, by far and away, a more spiritually fulfilling experience, with a richness of meaning in the traditions that is lost with what we have now.  I get the primary complaint, which is that it is (mostly) in Latin, and so the verbal meaning is lost.  Okay, fine... any reason it can't be in vernacular?  I don't see one.  We didn't have to ditch the entire format over a language issue.

[12th Doctor]

Also, the Tridentine Mass stood for four centuries with very few alteration made... and pre-Tridentine masses weren't all that dissimilar from the mass of Pius V.  Now, seems everytime you walk into the Church, they have made some damn change, or another, and the mass can vary from place to place, depending on what your bishop's preferences are.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Jesuits... my God, man.  How do you survive?  When I was in college, the university had a priest who said mass who did things that I am almost certain were not only explicitly opposed to the disciples of the mass, but downright anti-canonical.

What happened to the Jesuits?  They used to be the orthodox Catholic organization.  Now they are packed with liberation theologians and other sorts of people who are, at best, of highly dubious Catholicity.

Both Jesuit high school and college....thanks to them I am somewhat lapsed as I just get disenchanted more when I attend their "coming-together service".

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Well if that is really what you want to do, I guess...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I used to attend High Mass where Bp. Fulton Sheen used to preach his sermons around the corner from Grand Central. My experience was that, perhaps paradoxically, the younger priests were much more traditional and orthodox than the older ones...

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Because Latin is the universal language of the Church. There is no need for verbal meaning since what happens upon the altar is supposed to be between the priest and God.

Latin isn't difficult to learn anyway...

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Also, the Tridentine Mass stood for four centuries with very few alteration made... and pre-Tridentine masses weren't all that dissimilar from the mass of Pius V.  Now, seems everytime you walk into the Church, they have made some damn change, or another, and the mass can vary from place to place, depending on what your bishop's preferences are.

I also the hate the way the Novus Ordo iconoclasts show absolutely no regard when it comes to smashing and destroying beautiful historical altars and artwork to replace them with empty modernistic tables and banality.

[12th Doctor]

Jesuits... my God, man.  How do you survive?  When I was in college, the university had a priest who said mass who did things that I am almost certain were not only explicitly opposed to the disciples of the mass, but downright anti-canonical.

What happened to the Jesuits?  They used to be the orthodox Catholic organization.  Now they are packed with liberation theologians and other sorts of people who are, at best, of highly dubious Catholicity.

Both Jesuit high school and college....thanks to them I am somewhat lapsed as I just get disenchanted more when I attend their "coming-together service".

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well if that is really what you want to do, I guess...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I used to attend High Mass where Bp. Fulton Sheen used to preach his sermons around the corner from Grand Central. My experience was that, perhaps paradoxically, the younger priests were much more traditional and orthodox than the older ones...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Because Latin is the universal language of the Church. There is no need for verbal meaning since what happens upon the altar is supposed to be between the priest and God.

Latin isn't difficult to learn anyway...

When I said that I "briefly" considered joining them, I meant just that.  I am no longer really considering that route, let alone surrounding myself with a community of Marxist Quasi-Catholics.

As for you comment on Latin... okay, but you know as well as I that that is not the only thing that is in Latin in the Tridentine Mass.  The language is not important anyway.  Latin made sense, at the time, because it was the language of scholarship, and acted as a basic universal language.  Having all the prayers in the same language also, in their minds, reduced the chance for misunderstandings in doctrine, or the use of imprecise language during the sacraments.  That is an interesting concern, but I don't think it is a valid one, especially not today, when the Vatican can control the translation of all the sacramentaries, and insure that such is not the case.

[12th Doctor]

Also, the Tridentine Mass stood for four centuries with very few alteration made... and pre-Tridentine masses weren't all that dissimilar from the mass of Pius V.  Now, seems everytime you walk into the Church, they have made some damn change, or another, and the mass can vary from place to place, depending on what your bishop's preferences are.

I also the hate the way the Novus Ordo iconoclasts show absolutely no regard when it comes to smashing and destroying beautiful historical altars and artwork to replace them with empty modernistic tables and banality.

Agreed.  The art is not essential to worship, but if it is there, then there is no reason to do away with it.

[afleitch]

When I said that I "briefly" considered joining them, I meant just that.  I am no longer really considering that route, let alone surrounding myself with a community of Marxist Quasi-Catholics.

<Angry face>

[12th Doctor]

When I said that I "briefly" considered joining them, I meant just that.  I am no longer really considering that route, let alone surrounding myself with a community of Marxist Quasi-Catholics.

<Angry face>

You have heard me rail against Liberation Theology before.  Why should you be surprised?

[afleitch]

When I said that I "briefly" considered joining them, I meant just that.  I am no longer really considering that route, let alone surrounding myself with a community of Marxist Quasi-Catholics.

<Angry face>

You have heard me rail against Liberation Theology before.  Why should you be surprised?

'Quasi-Catholics' Chris?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

As for you comment on Latin... okay, but you know as well as I that that is not the only thing that is in Latin in the Tridentine Mass.  The language is not important anyway.  Latin made sense, at the time, because it was the language of scholarship, and acted as a basic universal language.  Having all the prayers in the same language also, in their minds, reduced the chance for misunderstandings in doctrine, or the use of imprecise language during the sacraments.  

How can a universal Church not have a universal language?

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Looking at the way things have turned out, I don't think that's true. How many decades is it now that it is taking them just to change the common phrase "for all" into the correct phrase "for many" to match the actual Latin "pro multis"?

[jokerman]

No, my post was quite candid.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

"Quasi-Catholic" is an unintentionally hilarious phrase, actually...

[12th Doctor]

As for you comment on Latin... okay, but you know as well as I that that is not the only thing that is in Latin in the Tridentine Mass.  The language is not important anyway.  Latin made sense, at the time, because it was the language of scholarship, and acted as a basic universal language.  Having all the prayers in the same language also, in their minds, reduced the chance for misunderstandings in doctrine, or the use of imprecise language during the sacraments.  

How can a universal Church not have a universal language?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Looking at the way things have turned out, I don't think that's true. How many decades is it now that it is taking them just to change the common phrase "for all" into the correct phrase "for many" to match the actual Latin "pro multis"?

This goes back to the old debate, not only in the Church, but in all academia, about language.  Words themselves are just air (or script).  They have no inherent meaning.  What matters is the meaning communicated by those words.  There is no such thing as a permanent language.  Even as Latin has been officially dead for 1400 years (and even that definition is utterly arbitrary) the frozen Latin language that we have preserved has changed throughout that time, in form, in pronunciation, in meaning, for, amongst and between scholars, churchmen, etc.

The better question is "why do we need a universal language"?  This is one of those trappings of hyper-formality that give the stuff that has real meaning a bad image.  If God is omniscient, and the Church is Universal, then God is going to get whatever we are saying, regardless of what language we use.  The point should be to make sure everyone gets the meaning behind what is being said.  Which Universal language were they using in 60 AD?  They didn't have one.  Matthew was written in a style of Hebrew that was not the Ancient Hebrew, but what the people were speaking then.  Paul wrote in Greek.  Even if you allow that Latin was the majority language in the just the West, the Latin spoken then is not the Latin we use now.

I stated that the Vatican could manage the translations, not that it does.  This is the reason I think Vatican II was a mistake, not because I have specific objections to its decrees... indeed, most of them are completely consistent with the ongoing currents of Catholic thought... but because the Church has done a terrible job in expressing why it did what it did at the Council, and why this is not an open invitation to just make changes whenever a new social trend arises.  The Church has failed in making itself clear to the world, which has opened the gate for groups like the American Conference of Bishops to confuse the Hell out of the faithful with their constant changes to this, that, and the other thing.  The Vatican should have taken a stronger role in making sense of the council, and, back to the point, the Mass.

[12th Doctor]

No, my post was quite candid.

My apologies then, and the offer still applies.

[12th Doctor]

When I said that I "briefly" considered joining them, I meant just that.  I am no longer really considering that route, let alone surrounding myself with a community of Marxist Quasi-Catholics.

<Angry face>

You have heard me rail against Liberation Theology before.  Why should you be surprised?

'Quasi-Catholics' Chris?

I don't know what to say, dear.  You knew I felt that way when you married me.