Prison Reform Bill [On the President's Desk]

[Marokai Backbeat]

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Sponsor: Senator Franzl

Written by Lt. Governor Ebowed.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This bill has my support. Private prisons are an abomination to the justice system.

[Franzl]

I agree, and this bill also has my full support.

[afleitch]

I take it that this bill would make it unlawful for federal government to use public funds to transfer prisoners to a private prison in the event of overcrowding? Trying to transfer from federal prison to federal prison may incur additional cost...and if they are full the federal government will be forced to construct/extend prisons to cope at significant cost.

I am undecided on this bill.

[Ebowed]

I take it that this bill would make it unlawful for federal government to use public funds to transfer prisoners to a private prison in the event of overcrowding? Trying to transfer from federal prison to federal prison may incur additional cost...and if they are full the federal government will be forced to construct/extend prisons to cope at significant cost.

I am undecided on this bill.

The point here though is that as privately maintained prisons have no outside oversight whatsoever, the people being kept in these facilities could be subjected to non-humane treatment without anyone else ever knowing about it.  Prisons are one of the very worst things you could possibly privatize.

Any money that local governments use on sending their inmates to private prisons is better used elsewhere because we should not have them in the first place.

[Lief 🗽]

Furthermore, with the decriminalization or legalization of most drugs and the ending of the war on drugs, we shouldn't need the extra space provided by private prisons in the first place.

[Јas]

I was unaware such things existed. While I can see certain benefits from the idea of private prisons (subject to proper oversight and regulation), my natural inclination would be that it's probably better that prisons, as a matter of public policy, should not be run as for-profit enterprises.

My main questions on the bill though are: do we know/can we reasonably estimate how many persons are currently detained in Atlasian private prisons?
And, can the public prison system reasonably cope with the addition of such numbers, presumably with immediate effect, should this bill pass?

[Alexander Hamilton]

If the SoIA is confirmed quick enough, I'm sure he can give a decent report on the effects of this bill on Atlasia.

[Rowan]

If the SoIA is confirmed quick enough, I'm sure he can give a decent report on the effects of this bill on Atlasia.

Somehow I doubt he will be able to.

[Purple State]

I was unaware such things existed. While I can see certain benefits from the idea of private prisons (subject to proper oversight and regulation), my natural inclination would be that it's probably better that prisons, as a matter of public policy, should not be run as for-profit enterprises.

My main questions on the bill though are: do we know/can we reasonably estimate how many persons are currently detained in Atlasian private prisons?
And, can the public prison system reasonably cope with the addition of such numbers, presumably with immediate effect, should this bill pass?

Give me until later tonight or tomorrow and I'll try to get something on this.

[afleitch]

I take it that this bill would make it unlawful for federal government to use public funds to transfer prisoners to a private prison in the event of overcrowding? Trying to transfer from federal prison to federal prison may incur additional cost...and if they are full the federal government will be forced to construct/extend prisons to cope at significant cost.

I am undecided on this bill.

The point here though is that as privately maintained prisons have no outside oversight whatsoever, the people being kept in these facilities could be subjected to non-humane treatment without anyone else ever knowing about it.  Prisons are one of the very worst things you could possibly privatize.

Any money that local governments use on sending their inmates to private prisons is better used elsewhere because we should not have them in the first place.

I understand your concerns, thought the part I have highligted is not adressed by the bill. Perhaps it should; perhaps the state can take measures to regulate or even ban these prisons? There are private prisons in operation in Britain. Like any other prison they are subject to routine inspection and certification by the governement.

Perhaps an amendment can be brought forward to do this? If however we choose to ban private prisons or withold our co-operation with them in the prison system there is still a numbers game; what to do with prisoners we cannot transfer to the private sector and secondly what do about prison accomodation, particularly if we chose to ban private prisons. Can we afford capital investment in building and extending prisons?

[Alexander Hamilton]

If the SoIA is confirmed quick enough, I'm sure he can give a decent report on the effects of this bill on Atlasia.

Somehow I doubt he will be able to.

More likely than you accomplishing anything during your entire term.

[Fritz]

Hamilton: we all know that you despise Senator RowanBrandon.  We get it, okay?  I have asked you very politely to keep your personal attacks off of the Senate floor.  Now, I am telling you: CEASE AND DESIST.  Not because I hold any particular affection for the Senator, but because you are disrupting Senate business.

[Purple State]

I was unaware such things existed. While I can see certain benefits from the idea of private prisons (subject to proper oversight and regulation), my natural inclination would be that it's probably better that prisons, as a matter of public policy, should not be run as for-profit enterprises.

My main questions on the bill though are: do we know/can we reasonably estimate how many persons are currently detained in Atlasian private prisons?
And, can the public prison system reasonably cope with the addition of such numbers, presumably with immediate effect, should this bill pass?

Approximately 8 percent, or 180,000 of the around 2 million incarcerated individuals, are currently housed in private prisons.

Atlasian regional prisons are on average running at 110 percent capacity, while federal prisons are closer to 130 percent.

If the Senate chooses to pass this bill, the Office of the GM highly recommends major funding for expansion of state and federal prison facilities, as well as a phase-in timetable for the implementation of this legislation.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Hamilton: we all know that you despise Senator RowanBrandon.  We get it, okay?  I have asked you very politely to keep your personal attacks off of the Senate floor.  Now, I am telling you: CEASE AND DESIST.  Not because I hold any particular affection for the Senator, but because you are disrupting Senate business.

I echo these statements. Hamilton, if you have nothing constructive to add, please shut up.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'll do a little research to justify my opinions on this bill and rewrite it to accommodate the GM's concerns before the night's over.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hamilton: we all know that you despise Senator RowanBrandon.  We get it, okay?  I have asked you very politely to keep your personal attacks off of the Senate floor.  Now, I am telling you: CEASE AND DESIST.  Not because I hold any particular affection for the Senator, but because you are disrupting Senate business.

I echo these statements. Hamilton, if you have nothing constructive to add, please shut up.

I would like to say that it upsets me that my remarks are condemned but not Rowan's treatment of a 14 year old kid, which was a response to something I do feel was a constructive comment. I think a report on this bill would be a great place for NiK to start looking into the possible effects of domestic policy.

[Ebowed]

I'll do a little research to justify my opinions on this bill and rewrite it to accommodate the GM's concerns before the night's over.

Bear in mind that the Pacific Region bans private prisons completely.

Given the number of things which are legal in Atlasia and not the United States, I would hardly think that we need as many prisons anyway.

[Јas]

I was unaware such things existed. While I can see certain benefits from the idea of private prisons (subject to proper oversight and regulation), my natural inclination would be that it's probably better that prisons, as a matter of public policy, should not be run as for-profit enterprises.

My main questions on the bill though are: do we know/can we reasonably estimate how many persons are currently detained in Atlasian private prisons?
And, can the public prison system reasonably cope with the addition of such numbers, presumably with immediate effect, should this bill pass?

Approximately 8 percent, or 180,000 of the around 2 million incarcerated individuals, are currently housed in private prisons.

Atlasian regional prisons are on average running at 110 percent capacity, while federal prisons are closer to 130 percent.

If the Senate chooses to pass this bill, the Office of the GM highly recommends major funding for expansion of state and federal prison facilities, as well as a phase-in timetable for the implementation of this legislation.

Many thanks for the work on that PS.

Obviously therefore an immediate effective shutdown of these prisons would cause chaos. I hope we can look at options to try and deal with the potential implications. I look forward to Marokai's proposals on the matter.

[afleitch]

I was unaware such things existed. While I can see certain benefits from the idea of private prisons (subject to proper oversight and regulation), my natural inclination would be that it's probably better that prisons, as a matter of public policy, should not be run as for-profit enterprises.

My main questions on the bill though are: do we know/can we reasonably estimate how many persons are currently detained in Atlasian private prisons?
And, can the public prison system reasonably cope with the addition of such numbers, presumably with immediate effect, should this bill pass?

Approximately 8 percent, or 180,000 of the around 2 million incarcerated individuals, are currently housed in private prisons.

Atlasian regional prisons are on average running at 110 percent capacity, while federal prisons are closer to 130 percent.

If the Senate chooses to pass this bill, the Office of the GM highly recommends major funding for expansion of state and federal prison facilities, as well as a phase-in timetable for the implementation of this legislation.

Many thanks for the work on that PS.

Obviously therefore an immediate effective shutdown of these prisons would cause chaos. I hope we can look at options to try and deal with the potential implications. I look forward to Marokai's proposals on the matter.

Given the budgetary implications of a prison expansion programme, I would prefer a bill that calls for regulation and state inspection of private prisons. However I will wait and see what Marokai comes up with

[Franzl]

The economic and organizational problems caused by abolition of private prisons do seem to be troubling, but I simply can't and won't support private prisons as a matter of principle. The justice system should never have anything to do with profits. Nobody should have a positive interest in imprisoning people.

A gradual phase-out might be more sensible...and we may have to increase funding for public prisons, but I also would hope that we have fewer prisoners in Atlasia than we do in real life because of all the victimless crimes that don't exist in Atlasia.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I apologize for completely forgetting to write my amendment here, I'll get to it very soon. I got a little too involved in the debate with Jas in the other thread.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Hamilton: we all know that you despise Senator RowanBrandon.  We get it, okay?  I have asked you very politely to keep your personal attacks off of the Senate floor.  Now, I am telling you: CEASE AND DESIST.  Not because I hold any particular affection for the Senator, but because you are disrupting Senate business.

I echo these statements. Hamilton, if you have nothing constructive to add, please shut up.

I would like to say that it upsets me that my remarks are condemned but not Rowan's treatment of a 14 year old kid, which was a response to something I do feel was a constructive comment. I think a report on this bill would be a great place for NiK to start looking into the possible effects of domestic policy.

If thats the case then you should have criticised what Rowan said about NiK, not Rowan's record.

[Ebowed]

All this bill does though is prohibit federal funding to private prisons.  Surely not all of them would then have to shut down immediately.

If this bill were switched to ban the operation of private prisons explicitly, then I would agree with including funding increases for prison expansion and the implementation phase-in.  Which I think would be an excellent idea, if the Senate is willing to go that far.

[Marokai Backbeat]

My proposed amendment:

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There's a disturbing practice going on in our prisons today, and it's, basically, slave labor. Businesses (and private prisons) employ inmates at pennies on the dollar to carry out jobs that any other business would have to pay a fair wage for. Even though these are inmates, they're still human beings, and it provides, perversely, a literal feeding ground for cheap labor.

And the problem is, they have to work, or they'll face additional prison time, lose privileges, and generally get treated like shit, all because they don't want to be slave labor for a slave's pay.

We've basically made prisons a business, and private prisons capitalize on the fact that we've had outrageous policies towards criminals and incarceration. I think we need to eliminate the profit motive from our justice system in any way possible, and get rid of any incentive that may exist towards imprisoning more people. I do not believe the justice system is a business.

As for the numbers, the United States spend about 60 billion on incarceration. Even if we inflate the GM's numbers to 10% of the prison system being private, that's still only about 6 billion. This bill slightly overcompensates for that if we assume that all of these private prisons would collapse without government funding, which is highly unlikely, but nevertheless we should prepare for the closing of facilities by building new ones, and compensate for the over-capacity of current prisons, as well as the hiring of more inspectors and additional investigations into problem prisons.

However, I would like to contest Purple's numbers because the Pacific has a radically different prison system than the rest of the country, and we have many less victimless crimes here, such as our drug policies. So I would take Purple's numbers about incarceration with the fact in mind that it's probably less serious than it's made out to be. Not meant to criticize Purple or anything, but this is one instance where copying stats from the US isn't appropriate.

Anyway, let the debate commence.