Voting Reform Amendment [Failed]

[Sbane]

     I registered on my 10th day, though granted I was PM'd by Xahar about it. Still, I find this attitude that any real poster will have no problem with waiting indefinitely to join Atlasia rather bizarre.

Yeah. I don't think most people join the forum to join Atlasia. Rather they discover it after they get here. And the requirement is already 15 days and I don't see anything wrong with increasing it to 25. Interested members can wait an extra week.

     I would hope that when it comes to putting up walls, there would be some test more rigorous than not seeing anything wrong with it.

     That aside, creating the 15-day limit proved to be an unmitigated failure. Why should the 25-day limit work much better, or for that matter any limit short of the realm of multiple months? In recruiting, I've actually found that the 50 post limit is actually much more frustrating due to genuine posters like zclark1994 who post infrequently. Increasing the time requirement will probably just lead to yet more increases, due to the fundamental reason that it is nearly worthless.

I would prefer a 60 day limit but I can see the problems with that too. Hmm...

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Oh for Christ sake, this again?

I don't want to interfer with Senate buisness, but you know I stated last time this was a major issue, that the 15 day requirment would do absolutly nothing to stop zombies. And look, history proved me right, as we now have more zombies than ever.

I think those people here that are reqruiting zombies, will find it very easy to tell the people they're drafting to just simply sign up ten days earlier.

This will result in nothing, but punishing those new forumees that actually want to take an active part in Atlasia. It's not the amount of time a person has been on the forum before they register here that determins if they will be a good poster or not. I believe I had only joined the forum seven days prior to me registring, and I think most people can agree that I'm not a zombie. Had I been forced to wait another twenty days before I could officially be part of the game, my carer and involvment here would have turned out much different. 

What we need is real zombie reform. Not some "I-could-care-less" amendment from time to time, that will at best stop some new zombies at the expense of other posters rights, but will do nothing to reduce the already huge hordes of zombies in Atlasia.   

[Alexander Hamilton]

Oh for Christ sake, this again?

I don't want to interfer with Senate buisness, but you know I stated last time this was a major issue, that the 15 day requirment would do absolutly nothing to stop zombies. And look, history proved me right, as we now have more zombies than ever.

I think those people here that are reqruiting zombies, will find it very easy to tell the people they're drafting to just simply sign up ten days earlier.

This will result in nothing, but punishing those new forumees that actually want to take an active part in Atlasia. It's not the amount of time a person has been on the forum before they register here that determins if they will be a good poster or not. I believe I had only joined the forum seven days prior to me registring, and I think most people can agree that I'm not a zombie. Had I been forced to wait another twenty days before I could officially be part of the game, my carer and involvment here would have turned out much different. 

What we need is real zombie reform. Not some "I-could-care-less" amendment from time to time, that will at best stop some new zombies at the expense of other posters rights, but will do nothing to reduce the already huge hordes of zombies in Atlasia.   

No offense, but most of the "zombies" have been here longer than we have, they just have low post counts.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Oh for Christ sake, this again?

I don't want to interfer with Senate buisness, but you know I stated last time this was a major issue, that the 15 day requirment would do absolutly nothing to stop zombies. And look, history proved me right, as we now have more zombies than ever.

I think those people here that are reqruiting zombies, will find it very easy to tell the people they're drafting to just simply sign up ten days earlier.

This will result in nothing, but punishing those new forumees that actually want to take an active part in Atlasia. It's not the amount of time a person has been on the forum before they register here that determins if they will be a good poster or not. I believe I had only joined the forum seven days prior to me registring, and I think most people can agree that I'm not a zombie. Had I been forced to wait another twenty days before I could officially be part of the game, my carer and involvment here would have turned out much different. 

What we need is real zombie reform. Not some "I-could-care-less" amendment from time to time, that will at best stop some new zombies at the expense of other posters rights, but will do nothing to reduce the already huge hordes of zombies in Atlasia.   

No offense, but most of the "zombies" have been here longer than we have, they just have low post counts.

Exactly my point Hamilton, I'm glad you caught it. Someone can have been on the forum for ages and still be an obvious zombie, while guys like you and me have been here for a shorter time while not being zombies.

Therefore I find this amendment to be pointless, or conter productive at worst. 

[Alexander Hamilton]

Oh for Christ sake, this again?

I don't want to interfer with Senate buisness, but you know I stated last time this was a major issue, that the 15 day requirment would do absolutly nothing to stop zombies. And look, history proved me right, as we now have more zombies than ever.

I think those people here that are reqruiting zombies, will find it very easy to tell the people they're drafting to just simply sign up ten days earlier.

This will result in nothing, but punishing those new forumees that actually want to take an active part in Atlasia. It's not the amount of time a person has been on the forum before they register here that determins if they will be a good poster or not. I believe I had only joined the forum seven days prior to me registring, and I think most people can agree that I'm not a zombie. Had I been forced to wait another twenty days before I could officially be part of the game, my carer and involvment here would have turned out much different. 

What we need is real zombie reform. Not some "I-could-care-less" amendment from time to time, that will at best stop some new zombies at the expense of other posters rights, but will do nothing to reduce the already huge hordes of zombies in Atlasia.   

No offense, but most of the "zombies" have been here longer than we have, they just have low post counts.

Exactly my point Hamilton, I'm glad you caught it. Someone can have been on the forum for ages and still be an obvious zombie, while guys like you and me have been here for a shorter time while not being zombies.

Therefore I find this amendment to be pointless, or conter productive at worst. 

Which is something I've also argued. The main zombies are people like BRTD and RosettaStoned. Compare participation in the JCP convention to the PC convention and you will see which party has the zombies and who they are.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Oh for Christ sake, this again?

I don't want to interfer with Senate buisness, but you know I stated last time this was a major issue, that the 15 day requirment would do absolutly nothing to stop zombies. And look, history proved me right, as we now have more zombies than ever.

I think those people here that are reqruiting zombies, will find it very easy to tell the people they're drafting to just simply sign up ten days earlier.

This will result in nothing, but punishing those new forumees that actually want to take an active part in Atlasia. It's not the amount of time a person has been on the forum before they register here that determins if they will be a good poster or not. I believe I had only joined the forum seven days prior to me registring, and I think most people can agree that I'm not a zombie. Had I been forced to wait another twenty days before I could officially be part of the game, my carer and involvment here would have turned out much different. 

What we need is real zombie reform. Not some "I-could-care-less" amendment from time to time, that will at best stop some new zombies at the expense of other posters rights, but will do nothing to reduce the already huge hordes of zombies in Atlasia.   

No offense, but most of the "zombies" have been here longer than we have, they just have low post counts.

Exactly my point Hamilton, I'm glad you caught it. Someone can have been on the forum for ages and still be an obvious zombie, while guys like you and me have been here for a shorter time while not being zombies.

Therefore I find this amendment to be pointless, or conter productive at worst. 

Which is something I've also argued. The main zombies are people like BRTD and RosettaStoned. Compare participation in the JCP convention to the PC convention and you will see which party has the zombies and who they are.

We need zombie reform. Everybody knows this. Yet the partisan bickering between JCP and ProCon makes sure that no such reform can actually pass. None of the parties particulary like zombies, and often express how much they think this is a problem needing solving, but neither wants to give up the advantages their own zombies give them. ProCon is not going to stop reqruiting new slaves, as long as it's the only thing that gives them an honest chance of being elected on the national level, and the JCP is equally bad if not worse by critizising the Conservatives, while hiding behind the lame excuse, "Well our zombies are different because..." as soon as anyone points out that a lot of their voters never set foot here except on election day as well.       

 ^^^ I have in fact also pointed this out, and is in no way blaming all zombie activity on your party only. 

[Fritz]

After reading through this again, I agree with those who say that increasing the time requirement is pointless and counter-productive, and with those who say that increasing the post requirement is pointless and counter-productive.  I oppose this, but I will vote in favor of the state-hopping amendment.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Yes I'm afraid I have to turn my position around as well. Fritz, Xahar, and other are right, this will ultimately do nothing to solve the problem and I'm afraid I must oppose it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'm going to give this a little extra time for Hash to defend the bill a bit, if he desires, and if nothing major happens, open a final vote later on.

[Purple State]

What is the current form? Still 25 days?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Buried at the bottom of the first page of this thread someone in the Senate actually did some work on a bill. Shocking, huh? Okay guys, since I missed this, let's get this amendment over with so we can do this right. (No one formally objected, Hash didn't formally accept, so it was kind of stuck in legislative limbo here.)

Anyway, I'm opening up a vote on the amendment below. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

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Nay. One of the strongest nays I've ever cast in fact. Posting requirements hurt normal posters and incentivize people to spam their way, which people have proven they're willing to do.

[Hash]

Nay. As much as I want some kind of reform, it's correct that post requirement will be useless. They'll find their way to spam it to 200, and the clause would only delay a bit the amount of time they take to register,

[Fritz]

Nay

[Rowan]

Aye

And I don't appreciate the mocking Mr. PPT.

[tmthforu94]

Nay
All I see this amendment doing is encouraging spamming on Atlas.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY

[Franzl]

I also must vote NAY here.

[MaxQue]

Nay

[Marokai Backbeat]

7 Nays, 1 Aye, this amendment failed. Debate continues, gentlemen.

[Marokai Backbeat]

No debate, so it's final vote time, gents.

I hereby open up a final vote on the following Amendment, 7 votes are required for passage, voting shall stay open for a week, or until the votes required to fail or pass are achieved. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

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[Franzl]

Aye

[Hash]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nay

[tmthforu94]

Nay

[Fritz]

Nay