Northeast Assembly Thread

[Cincinnatus]

Now we're on the same page. 

I nominate Andrew, obviously.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I second Andrew's nomination.

[Username MechaRFK]

Select Andrew

[Lambsbread]

I third Andrew's nomination.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I have no objections to Andrew's nomination.

[Free Palestine]

I nominate the reanimated corpse of Senator Libertas.

Seriously though, I have no problem with Andrew's nomination.  He's a pretty cool guy.

[tpfkaw]

No objections.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

All members have spoken.  The Assembly will now vote on recommendation.  This will be a 24-hour vote.

Lieutenant Governor Recommendation Preference

[ ] AndrewPA
[ ] Write-In:_____________
[ ] None of these candidates
[ ] Abstain

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Lieutenant Governor Recommendation Preference

[ x ] AndrewPA
[ ] Write-In:_____________
[ ] None of these candidates
[ ] Abstain

[Lambsbread]

Lieutenant Governor Recommendation Preference

[1] AndrewPA
[2] Write-In: Les Claypool
[ ] None of these candidates
[ ] Abstain

[Free Palestine]

[ X ] AndrewPA

[Cincinnatus]

[1]  Andrew PA
[2]  Dallasfan

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Voting time has expired.  The Assembly hereby recommends AndrewPA for Lieutenant Governor, with all four votes in favor of him.

The Assembly will now consider The Northeast Cabinet Act, introduced by myself.

The Northeast Cabinet Act

A BILL to establish a board of non-legislating advisers, which will work in the Northeast Executive Branch

1. The Governor may nominate an elected or non-elected Northeast citizen to each regional department.  Citizens who are selected must accept their nominations to each department, before being confirmed by the General Assembly at the beginning of the Governor’s term.

2. The Governor may fire a Secretary of any department at any time during his or her tenure, and the replacement(s) shall be confirmed by the General Assembly.

3. The secretaries shall advise the Governor, as well as the General Assembly, on legislation relevant to their department assignment(s) or recommend policy initiatives, but shall have no legislative power or vote in the General Assembly unless the Secretary is a member of such.  The Governor may appoint a secretary to oversee multiple departments at a time and the secretary shall work in the Cabinet until he or she resigns, is removed from their position by the Governor, or after the Governor’s term expires.  A secretary may serve under multiple governors without limitations on how many times he or she may be appointed.

4. The Governor may leave some or all departments vacant if he or she chooses.

5. The Departments will be as follows:

• Department of the State (will advise on legislation regarding election law, game reform)
• Department of the Treasury (will advise on legislation regarding money, budgeting, banking, consumer protection, loans)
• Department of Agriculture and the Interior (will advise on legislation regarding farm bills & compensation, rural development, regional parks, environmental regulation, energy policy, food stamps)
• Department of Commerce (will advise on legislation regarding economic growth)
• Department of Urban Development (will advise on legislation regarding urban development, maintenance, infrastructure)
• Department of Education (will advise on legislation regarding education policy, health standards for schools, school development, teacher pay)
• Department of Labor (will advise on legislation regarding labor, unions, worker pay, worker protection, worker conditions)
• Department of Veterans Affairs (will advise on legislation regarding support for veterans, region’s military force)
• Department of Health and Human Services (will advise on legislation regarding public health care, hospitals, health, safety regulations)
• Department of Justice (will advise on legislation regarding the administration of law, enforcement of justice)

6. The Governor may establish a new Cabinet position with the consent of the General Assembly.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Here's what I had to say about my legislation in my office thread.

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So in a nut shell, it's a fun way of increasing involvement in NE government with both the legislators and the citizens.

[Cincinnatus]

I have several issues with this bill.

Nominate an elected official?  The law would allow him to nominate anyone, yes.  However, can an already elected official hold dual positions?  This bill might find itself in trouble with Federal law here.

Next, "Citizens who are selected must accept their nominations to each department, before being confirmed by the General Assembly at the beginning of the Governor’s term."  This almost makes it sound like I have no choice to deny a nomination.  I understand what you mean, but the term "must accept their nomination" worries me.

As a side note, we already have a CJO, so I don't understand why we need a Dept of Justice.


Ultimately, I understand the purpose of this bill, but the biggest problem is dual office holding.  I think that would be the biggest flaw in this legislation. 

[tpfkaw]

Not in favor, we have a hard enough time filling every position as is and every one of these "advisory comissions" has ended up being used as a backdoor to introduce some awful piece of extreme government-expanding legislation that wouldn't be passed normally.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I have several issues with this bill.

Nominate an elected official?  The law would allow him to nominate anyone, yes.  However, can an already elected official hold dual positions?  This bill might find itself in trouble with Federal law here.

Next, "Citizens who are selected must accept their nominations to each department, before being confirmed by the General Assembly at the beginning of the Governor’s term."  This almost makes it sound like I have no choice to deny a nomination.  I understand what you mean, but the term "must accept their nomination" worries me.

As a side note, we already have a CJO, so I don't understand why we need a Dept of Justice.


Ultimately, I understand the purpose of this bill, but the biggest problem is dual office holding.  I think that would be the biggest flaw in this legislation.  

The bill is basically a way of giving citizens and legislators titles/obligations to advise on certain policies and issues.  People can already advise policy by posting in the legislation introduction thread, and either another citizen will support it or Representative will sponsor it for them.  This simply a way of getting more ideas and involvement from people.  I don't see how this would conflict with federal law if people on the positions technically don't have a final say on anything, and can't even vote unless they've been elected.

That part of the bill is simply saying that you can't be forced into having a position, and would have to accept it before it's valid.  If you would like to change the wording so that it clarifies what it means, I would be open to amending it.

The CJO, I also became slightly unsure about soon after writing this.  I would be open to eliminating this position if the Assembly would like to.

Not in favor, we have a hard enough time filling every position as is and every one of these "advisory comissions" has ended up being used as a backdoor to introduce some awful piece of extreme government-expanding legislation that wouldn't be passed normally.

Not every position has to be filled.  Originally, this bill had probably about fifteen departments or so before I chose to eliminate or merge some when I drafted it.  Also, you can't just assume that all legislation proposed by the advisers would be bad.  Promoting involvement in local government gives the citizens more of a say and makes it more open, as a whole.  And if something gets proposed that the Assembly doesn't like, it will get voted down just as when Representatives propose legislation the Assembly doesn't like.

[Cincinnatus]

Yes, but it is a position nonetheless.  Presidential cabinet's are considered a position, and that was why the cabinet flexibility amendment was necessary.  As I said before, this is my biggest potential problem with this bill. 

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yes, but it is a position nonetheless.  Presidential cabinet's are considered a position, and that was why the cabinet flexibility amendment was necessary.  As I said before, this is my biggest potential problem with this bill. 

Members of the presidential cabinet typically have more requirements and responsibilities other than to just advise on things.  Basically, all this legislation does is encourage the Governor to say to people, "We're looking for ideas on how our region should set policy on this particular issue.  Why don't you oversee what the Assembly does on something and give input, as well as share your ideas?".  So I don't really consider it a position in the sense that secretaries have control over anything.  If your problem with this bill is merely the use of the word 'cabinet position', then I suppose the wording could be altered, but other than that I don't see how this violates federal law.

[Cincinnatus]

Yes, but it is a position nonetheless.  Presidential cabinet's are considered a position, and that was why the cabinet flexibility amendment was necessary.  As I said before, this is my biggest potential problem with this bill. 

Members of the presidential cabinet typically have more requirements and responsibilities other than to just advise on things.  Basically, all this legislation does is encourage the Governor to say to people, "We're looking for ideas on how our region should set policy on this particular issue.  Why don't you oversee what the Assembly does on something and give input, as well as share your ideas?".  So I don't really consider it a position in the sense that secretaries have control over anything.  If your problem with this bill is merely the use of the word 'cabinet position', then I suppose the wording could be altered, but other than that I don't see how this violates federal law.

Whether it has that wording in it or not, I consider these to be positions.  Federal law does prohibit dual office holding.  I think it would pretty irresponsible for me to support this without having a compelling argument why this is lawful.     

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yes, but it is a position nonetheless.  Presidential cabinet's are considered a position, and that was why the cabinet flexibility amendment was necessary.  As I said before, this is my biggest potential problem with this bill. 

Members of the presidential cabinet typically have more requirements and responsibilities other than to just advise on things.  Basically, all this legislation does is encourage the Governor to say to people, "We're looking for ideas on how our region should set policy on this particular issue.  Why don't you oversee what the Assembly does on something and give input, as well as share your ideas?".  So I don't really consider it a position in the sense that secretaries have control over anything.  If your problem with this bill is merely the use of the word 'cabinet position', then I suppose the wording could be altered, but other than that I don't see how this violates federal law.

Whether it has that wording in it or not, I consider these to be positions.  Federal law does prohibit dual office holding.  I think it would pretty irresponsible for me to support this without having a compelling argument why this is lawful.     

Because as I've said, this bill is primarily for giving people titles, and thus, obligations to give suggestions.  The key word being, obligations.  Obviously, there are no legal restrictions on suggesting legislation, as it is.  However, most of the bills the Assembly considers are written by the Representatives and not the citizens themselves, which is what I'm trying to fix.  I suppose that if you still believe these are formal positions, we should get an opinion from the CJO or someone like that.  If this bill still might face legal conflicts with the federal government, I can change it so that only unelected citizens may be secretaries.

[Cincinnatus]

Yes, but it is a position nonetheless.  Presidential cabinet's are considered a position, and that was why the cabinet flexibility amendment was necessary.  As I said before, this is my biggest potential problem with this bill. 

Members of the presidential cabinet typically have more requirements and responsibilities other than to just advise on things.  Basically, all this legislation does is encourage the Governor to say to people, "We're looking for ideas on how our region should set policy on this particular issue.  Why don't you oversee what the Assembly does on something and give input, as well as share your ideas?".  So I don't really consider it a position in the sense that secretaries have control over anything.  If your problem with this bill is merely the use of the word 'cabinet position', then I suppose the wording could be altered, but other than that I don't see how this violates federal law.

Whether it has that wording in it or not, I consider these to be positions.  Federal law does prohibit dual office holding.  I think it would pretty irresponsible for me to support this without having a compelling argument why this is lawful.     

Because as I've said, this bill is primarily for giving people titles, and thus, obligations to give suggestions.  The key word being, obligations.  Obviously, there are no legal restrictions on suggesting legislation, as it is.  However, most of the bills the Assembly considers are written by the Representatives and not the citizens themselves, which is what I'm trying to fix.  I suppose that if you still believe these are formal positions, we should get an opinion from the CJO or someone like that.  If this bill still might face legal conflicts with the federal government, I can change it so that only unelected citizens may be secretaries.

I would actually rather have Bacon King give his view on the matter, as he has a handle on Federal law.  Or you could just get Snowguy to make a comment on it.

[Cincinnatus]

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Motioning to extend debate time 24 hours, to a total of 72.

[Bacon King]

This bill is not technically unconstitutional with regard to the Federal Constitution's dual-office holding provisions, since it only clarifies who the governor can nominate- not who can actually fill these positions.

However, anyone who's already holding office must certainly resign from their old job if they want to accept the nomination to this regional cabinet; see Article V, Section 1, Clause 1 of the Constitution. Even these advisory positions would be considered an "office of the Republic of Atlasia at any level of government."

Also, I agree with Cincinnatus that the first section of this bill should be reworded; I don't think anyone wants Northeasterners being shanghaied into cabinet service

[Cincinnatus]

This bill is not technically unconstitutional with regard to the Federal Constitution's dual-office holding provisions, since it only clarifies who the governor can nominate- not who can actually fill these positions.

However, anyone who's already holding office must certainly resign from their old job if they want to accept the nomination to this regional cabinet; see Article V, Section 1, Clause 1 of the Constitution. Even these advisory positions would be considered an "office of the Republic of Atlasia at any level of government."

Also, I agree with Cincinnatus that the first section of this bill should be reworded; I don't think anyone wants Northeasterners being shanghaied into cabinet service

Then we are in agreement.  Thank you


I propose the following amendment;

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