Northeast Assembly Thread

[cinyc]

By a vote of 3-4 with one unexcused absence, the Northeast Senate Amendment fails.

Next bill:

Vacancy filling Act

In accordance to Article V, section ix) of the New Northeast Constitution, vacancies in the Legislative Assembly shall be filled in the following manner :

1. In the case when a vacancy in the Northeast Legislative Assembly is the result of the voluntary resignation of a Northeast Representative, said Representative shall appoint a Northeast Citizen to replace him in the Assembly.
2. In the case when a vacancy in the Northeast Legislative Assembly has another reason that what is mentioned in section 1, the Governor of the Northeast Region shall appoint a Northeast Citizen to fill said vacancy.
3. In the case mentioned in Section 1, if the resigning Northeast Representative doesn't appoint anybody to replace him within a week following his resignation, the Governor of the Northeast Region shall appoint a Northeast Citizen to fill said vacancy.

Sponsor: Rep. Antonio V

The question is whether the bill should be considered?

The ayes have it.

Debate on this bill will continue until at least 2:25AM Eastern on Friday, February 19, 2010, unless the debate period is extended or shortened in accordance with the SOAP.

Note that because this bill is a proposed constitutional amendment, a mere majority vote will not be sufficient to pass.

The Sponsor, Representative Antonio V, has the floor.

[cinyc]

It's going to be virtually impossible to pass this amendment in time to get on the ballot.  The vote would have to conclude before 11:00PM or so on Thursday - and the Governor would have to sign it before midnight Friday.

Antonio V - how we proceed is up to you.  Tabling this to move onto your next bill, which isn't a constitutional amendment, might be wise.   You could also move to limit debate to the shortest possible period.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, I move to shorten the debate period to the legal minimum.

[cinyc]

Actually, I'm WRONG.  Article V, Section ix of the New Northeast Constitution states:

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So this is just a law, not a Constitutional amendment.  It will NOT go to the voters, and we do have time to handle it. 

Do you still want a minimum debate period?

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

wait so the people cant vote to fill the space? It would increase elections and make it more exciting if we do it that way.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I support this measure.

It's more about respecting wished of the people. If they elected a man from certain party and with certain wievs, it's appropriate retiring member would be replaced by someone politically close.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I support this measure.

It's more about respecting wished of the people. If they elected a man from certain party and with certain wievs, it's appropriate retiring member would be replaced by someone politically close.

sure but what if the people never liked him? shouldn't they be able to choose who they want to replace him? we are suppose to help the people.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I support this measure.

It's more about respecting wished of the people. If they elected a man from certain party and with certain wievs, it's appropriate retiring member would be replaced by someone politically close.

sure but what if the people never liked him? shouldn't they be able to choose who they want to replace him? we are suppose to help the people.

There is no proposed meassure to institute rapid special elections, so this project we're currently debating on is the best thing we can get now.

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

I may or not be able to make it to the vote depending on when you schedule it, I've got work tonight and almost all day tomorrow.

[cinyc]

I support this measure.

It's more about respecting wished of the people. If they elected a man from certain party and with certain wievs, it's appropriate retiring member would be replaced by someone politically close.

sure but what if the people never liked him? shouldn't they be able to choose who they want to replace him? we are suppose to help the people.

There is no proposed meassure to institute rapid special elections, so this project we're currently debating on is the best thing we can get now.

Well, Rep. cutie_15 can certainly offer an amendment calling for a special election if that's what she wants.  It would likely be deemed unfriendly and put to a vote on the Assembly floor - but that's up to Rep. Antonio V.

[The Age Wave]

I offer this amendment:

Vacancy filling Act

In accordance to Article V, section ix) of the New Northeast Constitution, vacancies in the Legislative Assembly shall be filled in the following manner :

1. In the case of a vacancy in the Northeast Legislative Assembly for any reason, a special election shall be held to elect a new Representative.
2. The special election must take place no less than 5 days following the vacancy and the booth shall open at 12:00 AM EST on the nearest Friday, provided that Friday is at least 5 days since the vacancy occurred and shall close on that Sunday at 11:59 PM EST, to be administered by the appropriate official.

[cinyc]

I offer this amendment:

Vacancy filling Act

In accordance to Article V, section ix) of the New Northeast Constitution, vacancies in the Legislative Assembly shall be filled in the following manner :

1. In the case when a vacancy in the Northeast Legislative Assembly is the result of the voluntary resignation of a Northeast Representative, a special election shall be held to elect a new Representative.
2. The special election must take place no less than 5 days following the vacancy and the booth shall open at 12:00 AM EST on the nearest Friday, provided that Friday is at least 5 days since the vacancy occurred and shall close on that Sunday at 11:59 PM EST.

A few questions: What happens if there is an involuntary resignation?  What's the deadline for declaring?  And who runs the election (usually, it's the CJO in the Northeast).

[The Age Wave]

I offer this amendment:

Vacancy filling Act

In accordance to Article V, section ix) of the New Northeast Constitution, vacancies in the Legislative Assembly shall be filled in the following manner :

1. In the case when a vacancy in the Northeast Legislative Assembly is the result of the voluntary resignation of a Northeast Representative, a special election shall be held to elect a new Representative.
2. The special election must take place no less than 5 days following the vacancy and the booth shall open at 12:00 AM EST on the nearest Friday, provided that Friday is at least 5 days since the vacancy occurred and shall close on that Sunday at 11:59 PM EST.

A few questions: What happens if there is an involuntary resignation?  What's the deadline for declaring?  And who runs the election (usually, it's the CJO in the Northeast).

thanks, made some changes. I accidentally left some parts of the old text that I shouldn't have.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I have to disagree with my fellow Representative cutie, though I understand her concerns. I deem the Amendment unfriendly.

[The Age Wave]

I have to disagree with my fellow Representative cutie, though I understand her concerns. I deem the Amendment unfriendly.

okay but I prefer we vote on it in that case.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I have to disagree with my fellow Representative cutie, though I understand her concerns. I deem the Amendment unfriendly.

okay but I prefer we vote on it in that case.

Isn't that a procedure?

[cinyc]

I have to disagree with my fellow Representative cutie, though I understand her concerns. I deem the Amendment unfriendly.

okay but I prefer we vote on it in that case.

Isn't that a procedure?

Yes.  The proposed amendment to the bill will be put to a vote at the end of the debate period.

Rep. Silent_Spade - am I safe in assuming that your amendment replaces Re. Antonio V's bill in its entirety?

If so, I have amendments to the proposed amendment:

3.  The appropriate official shall place the names of all candidates who declare their intention to run in the special election on the Candidate Declaration Thread before 12:00 midnight Eastern time on the Thursday before the poll opens.  

4.  Any candidate who receives write-in votes must confirm that he or she is willing to assume the vacancy by publicly declaring a willingness to receive write-in votes before the polls close in the Candidate Declaration Thread or writing in his or her own name on the ballot to fill the vacancy.  Otherwise, those write-in votes shall be deemed void.

[The Age Wave]

I accept cinyc's changes to my offered amendment, and yes, it is intended to repalce the entire text of the bill.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I have an idea. What if we strick appointments al all and will fill vacancies with rapid special elections only?

[The Age Wave]

I have an idea. What if we strick appointments al all and will fill vacancies with rapid special elections only?

That's what my amendment does, so vote for it!

[The Age Wave]

Any other ideas?

My reasons for not wanting the Representative to choose is I fear some people might do something crazy as a joke. What if someone picked Jasengle?

[Smid]

As a member of the Executive, rather than the Legislature, I try not to involve myself in discussing Bills currently being debated on the floor of the Assembly, however I thought I might toss in some thoughts.

In Australia, we use STV to elect the Senate, the Lower House in Tasmania, the Upper Houses in most states and also to elect councillors for many local councils. I know that for the Senate and for the Upper House in Victoria, if a vacancy occurs for any reason, the party which had that position before selects the replacement for that position. It's not set out how the party chooses the replacement, but in Atlasia something not dissimilar to the current endorsement discussion threads would probably be the easiest way to do things.

Another option that you may wish to consider is the way vacancies on local councils are typically filled - since councils are frequently non-partisan here and therefore a party replacement is not appropriate. In these instances a count-back is used. Count-backs are simply re-running the votes at the previous election, and distributing preferences of anyone who voted for the person being replaced - basically it's like assuming that person never ran for a position and wasn't on the ballot paper. The last few elections haven't seen enough candidates for this to be viable, but an amendment such as this would encourage parties to run more candidates than they expect to win positions, thus making General Elections more heavily contested and therefore more exciting. For example, if the JCP expected to have two candidates elected, they might run three or four candidates (and encourage JCP members to allocate preferences according to a set order - thus ensuring that their most-preferred candidates would be most likely to be elected). Then, if a JCP member resigns or the seat becomes vacant for whatever reason, when that candidate is excluded from the count, it is likely that most votes going to that candidate will instead elect another JCP member. This removes the ambiguity of allowing a party to appoint a poster to a position that has become vacant, while also removing the need to quickly declare a special election for the position - and additionally, in a special election for a single position, the predominant party in the Region is likely to elect a person to fill the position, even if the member who has resigned comes from a smaller party - thus unbalancing the Assembly.

[The Age Wave]

I'm concerned that might give political parties themselves too much power- I'd hope that we could vote for individuals and not parties. I don't want people to not vote for me because they are scared what would happen if I left a vacancy, and I'm sure that there are people who don't like that idea, but it's definitely better than the current system.

[Smid]

I'm concerned that might give political parties themselves too much power- I'd hope that we could vote for individuals and not parties. I don't want people to not vote for me because they are scared what would happen if I left a vacancy, and I'm sure that there are people who don't like that idea, but it's definitely better than the current system.

Under a count-back method, they'd be able to cast your vote for you, being well aware that if you resigned, their vote would flow on to the next candidate remaining in the race.

You raise a good point about parties vs individuals. A couple of the ways to hold PR elections include Party List and STV - in Party List, you simply vote for the party you want and their candidates are elected in order... under STV, people can vote for whichever candidate they wish - either following a particular party, or vote for individual candidates from different parties. That's one reason why Atlasian PR elections are held using STV rather than Party List. Nonetheless, in a countback, the next candidate would be elected - exactly the same as if the person who held the now-vacant seat had not run. Under normal special election rules, a smaller group who all voted for the candidate who resigned may have their voice completely removed because the largest group will win the special election - instead of it merely being a quota that needs to be filled, it would be 50% +1 to get elected, which obviously benefits the strongest party to the detriment of weaker parties - including one which may have just lost a seat due to a resignation.

[cinyc]

We will now vote on the unfriendly amendment proposed by Rep. Silent Spade, which replaces the proposed bill in its entirety.  

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This vote shall remain open until the earlier of 2:25 AM Eastern on Saturday, February 20, or when all Representatives shall have voted.

Note that this is not a vote on final passage, but whether to adopt the amendment instead of the initial language.  A vote on final passage of whatever version of the bill is adopted will commence after the vote on the amendment.