Northeast Assembly Thread

[Sbane]

The particularly polluted stream of 'libertarianism' - "taxation is theft"  - the state should not own anything... that's how it fits.

Giving away land for free is theft from the taxpayer. Anyone subscribing to that particular style of libertarian needs to get their head out of the sand and their fingers out of the ears.

I just don't understand why these dumb laws mean so much to wormy that he is willing to make a mockery of our region and constitution to preserve them. I thought we were working together pretty well until this whole mess started.

Wormy had proven through his actions on Atlasia that he has some real issues. He needs help.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Giving away land for free is theft from the taxpayer.

Uh, no.  The land was taken by force from its original owners, and therefore the thing which would involve the least moral turpitude is to return it to the legal heirs of the original owners.  Tax moeny is also taken by force from taxpayers, however this happened after the land was taken by force, and conflicting grievances ought to be settled on the principle of "oldest first;" especially since said taxpayers are a party in the first grievance (they are living on land taken by force from the indigenous peoples of the area).  BTW, does this mean you are retroactively against the Homestead Act?  I'd give you points for being a consistently good Democrat.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I just don't understand why these dumb laws mean so much to Napoleon that he is willing to make a mockery of our region and constitution to get rid of them. I thought we were working together pretty well until this whole mess started.  (Do note that it is you, rather than I, who initiated this entire dispute, I was merely attempting to be helpful).

And Polnut is a fine one to talk about compromise, given that he opposed every single thing I ever introduced, even when my bills were "moderate," had broad popular support, and required him to be a hypocrite to oppose them.  (There was one in which he listed a laundry list of "concerns" - all of which I had already specifically addressed in the bill beforehand.  When I and others pointed this out to him, he declared he would oppose it anyway).

Rubbish,

1. You addressed them as far as you were concerned - not to my satisfaction

2. I'm glad you put the " " around moderate - because I'm yet to see a genuinely moderate piece of legislation from you

3. And you also opposed everything I put forward, even things with appreciable benefits (back-filling HepB vaccinations for example) and low costs...

[Napoleon]

The original owners are long dead. I don't support reparations for blacks, nor do I support this. I don't care what happened regarding you and Polnit before I was even registered. You may have been trying to be helpful, I thought you were trying to be a smart ass by detailing my bill. Now this is in the hands of the courts as the law is illegitimate. Do not blame me for the mistakes of others, I try my best as Speaker to ensure that votes are fair and handled properly according to the rules established with the creation of this body. As for broad public support for these laws, I doubt it but feel free to poll it and prove me wrong. I do not appreciate being dragged into this bickering so hopefully you are content with allowing these disputes to be taken up by the court per the constitution and laying off the threats against my Senate campaign. My first and foremost priority is my service in the Assembly for the term I have been elected to. If my respect for rule of law is what causes me to lose my Senate race, then so be it! I prefer to stay above the fray and not participate in any kind of personal mudslinging. I don't want to play hardball here, which we are both at fault for...but you can either be constructive with me or you can remain content with alienating people in this region such as myself, Jake, and homelycooking who harbor no personal animosity from whatever happened when Polnut was still here. I think I've been very lenient regarding our joke of a governor. I've been hard at work as Speaker, SRC Commissioner, Constitutional Convention leader, and Senate candidate all at once. I'm trying to fix the institutional failures of this region and hopefully you are willing to help. What is preventing your bill from being passed properly at a later date?

[tpfkaw]

The original owners are long dead. I don't support reparations for blacks, nor do I support this.

This is somewhat different from slavery reparations; slavery reparations are the expropriation of property created in the modern day to pay for the emotional distress caused to people who no longer are living.  This is returning stolen property that still exists to the directly-traceable descendents of those it was stolen from.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Um, you were the one who started it, so I might say that it is you who is dragging I into this bickering.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course, because my arguments are legally correct whilst yours are conjectural and frivolous.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm not threatening anything.  I am making the observation that your path to victory is considerably more difficult without the second preferences of my supporters.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The fact that it has already been passed properly, twice.

[Napoleon]

The esteemed CJO will decide whether or not that is true but I do expect to be right.

As for my Senate bid, I would appreciate your second preferences but I will not compromise on my convictions to do so. It is up to you and your supporters to decide whether myself or Marokai is a better fit.

[tpfkaw]

I'm not so trivial a person as to make tribal land repatriation my single issue (can you imagine how it would be in real life?!).  What turns I and quite probably my party against you is your overall level of partisan hackery, culminating in your threatening impeachment against our party office-holders merely because you disagree with them.  That sort of shocking abuse of power is not the type of "reform" we're after, and it's going to hurt your stock with us quite a bit.

[Napoleon]

Ghostwhite has no confidence from the citizenry and is governor due to a technical error from years ago. In all honesty he should have been impeached long ago but I was willing to give him another chance. You can call me a partisan hack but it wont stick, if anyone else thinks I'm not one of the least hackish posters inside and outside this game, please speak up. I'm such a partisan hack that I voted for you and Jake both for Speaker and defended you from Antonio when he was attacking you.

[tpfkaw]

Yes, and I voted for you and even (IIRC) for Polnut his second time around as speaker.  Ghost_white was legitimately elected governor in the last election, by a fairly solid margin, I might add.  I was under the impression that you were not a very hackish type, but you seem to have proven me wrong over the past 24 hours.

[Napoleon]

I'm sorry you've come to that conclusion.

[Sbane]

How is Napoleon hackish? What does this have to do with party?

Anyways a "real" libertarian would have given all of the stolen property back, not just the portions you don't want. You are all for helping Native Americans, as long as you aren't inconvenienced. What a joke.

[Napoleon]

Northeast Parks and Recreation Use Act

1. This act shall be applied only to those lands and facilities operated and maintained by the state and/or regional governments.

2. Citizens and legal residents of the Northeast shall not be required to pay any fee for use of state and/or regional parks or recreational facilities.

3. Citizens and legal residents of the Northeast are eligible for free admission to state parks and recreational facilities not operated or maintained by the regional government irrespective of their state of residence.

4. Nonresidents of the Northeast may be required to pay a fee for use of state and/or regional parks or recreational facilities where applicable.

5. The Un-Stealing Act is repealed if it was properly passed.

Any objections to my amendment?

[tpfkaw]

How is Napoleon hackish? What does this have to do with party?

I just said why.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, actually it wouldn't inconvenience me in the slightest if such a policy were implemented in Atlasia.

There are practical limits to my beliefs: something which would cause such a massive disturbance and would require a massive use of coercive force - such as the forcible ethnic cleansing of a highly populated area - does not jibe with what I would consider legitimate.  However, that doesn't mean that there aren't smaller things that can't be made right without causing massive harm to tens of millions of people, and this is one of them.

[Napoleon]

No harm done.

[Sbane]

How is Napoleon hackish? What does this have to do with party?

I just said why.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, actually it wouldn't inconvenience me in the slightest if such a policy were implemented in Atlasia.

There are practical limits to my beliefs: something which would cause such a massive disturbance and would require a massive use of coercive force - such as the forcible ethnic cleansing of a highly populated area - does not jibe with what I would consider legitimate.  However, that doesn't mean that there aren't smaller things that can't be made right without causing massive harm to tens of millions of people, and this is one of them.

But why give away wilderness areas for development? I have no problems if the Natives want access to their sacred grounds. I would be surprised if that wasn't already the case. But if they want to build a Casino in the middle of the Adirondacks..yeah I oppose that. And so would their ancestors, obviously. But dollar is king....

If you want, we can do a homestead act of sorts for Natives, giving them land which is adjacent to developed land. The practical effect of your bill as currently written would be to destroy the last refuges of nature in the Northeast. That is unnecessary to do to help Native Americans. Now on the other hand if your goal is to ruin wilderness areas....

[Napoleon]

Whatever his goal, I linked to the result.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Sbane, if you remember, I wanted to present an amended version which would permit Native tribes full access to their lands... but it was a pointless exercise. 

[President Mitt]

I echo the governor's concerns, and would oppose an override.

Your opinion doesn't count.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. That does seem like a large slap in the face to the Northeasternern citizens who elected me to represent them, but in an attempt to preserve civility, I'll just ignore the personal attack.

I echo the governor's concerns, and would oppose an override.

Giovanni, why don't you take a few minutes and read the report? The SRC spent a lot of time on that, and it's rather insulting to see people oppose it because it's long and they're too lazy to read it and understand the changes the report makes.

I did read it, and as my post indicated, I, like the Governor, am concerned about the repeal of the Nullification Resolution. I think it is ultimately necessary to have such a resolution to protect our region from unconstitutional overreach on the part from our Federal government. There are many members of the senate I could quote that would love to trample the rights of our region if they had the chance.

If the Feds overreach their boundaries, we cannot just wait for a Federal judiciary, who are by no means filled with lovers of constitutional restraint, to come to their senses, the regions much act. In fact, I cannot understand why Jake Matthews, who claims to be a libertarian, could possibly support repeal of the Nullification Resolution, I do hope he changes his mind.

[Napoleon]

I guess Jake just isn't an idiot who thinks not counting your vote is a "personal attack".

[President Mitt]

I guess Jake just isn't an idiot who thinks not counting your vote is a "personal attack".

Well I am disappointed, Napoleon, if you disagreed with what I said, you are more than welcome to dispute what I have put forth and we can debate it. This is after all, the Northeast Assembly, and both you and I are Northeast Assemblymen, but instead of doing so, you have decided to resort to more personal attacks against me.

Marokai Blue is somebody I sharply disagree with on, well, practically everything. Both me and him can have spirited debates against the other. He does not on the other hand simply resort to attacking his opponent by calling him names such as "idiot" and telling him that his "opinion doesn't matter" even though the people legitimately elected him through the democratic process.

Perhaps the people of the Northeast Region should consider that when choosing their next senator.

[Napoleon]

You're not an Assemblyman.

[President Mitt]

You're not an Assemblyman.

When did that happen?

[Napoleon]

You're not an Assemblyman.

When did that happen?

Youre not part of this region, ergo, you are not particular this Assembly.

[Yelnoc]

You're not an Assemblyman.

When did that happen?

Youre not part of this region, ergo, you are not particular this Assembly.

Is that in the Northeast Constitution?

[Lambsbread]

I will keep my statement about Giovanni short and sweet--

I don't believe that anyone who does not live in the Northeast Region should serve in our Assembly and exploit our legislative process. However, childish personal attacks will not make him go away. Ignoring his presence would be best and accepting the fact that he found a loophole in our Constitution should just be the solution to this problem.

[Napoleon]

You're not an Assemblyman.

When did that happen?

Youre not part of this region, ergo, you are not particular this Assembly.

Is that in the Northeast Constitution?

I believe it is. If anyone wants to challenge this view, Sue me. I have no tolerance for immature trolling.