Should Éamon de Valera have offered condolences over Hitler's death?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Of course not, but he was a fascist, vile piece of human garbage, so of course he did.

[k-onmmunist]

No (normal)

[Хahar 🤔]

You spelled Éamon wrong.

But I don't care.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

You talk an amazing amount of sh!te BRTD, explain to me how exactly De Valera was a fascist?

In regards to the question, no but it was purely symbolic anyway. If you must criticize him (and De Valera was certainly a moderate in terms of Irish opinion towards the war, the IRA were typically Pro-German for example this is despite being essentially a communist front in the 1930s. Google Sean Russell for Lolz.) then talk about how he rejected jewish refugees from Europe from entering the country and sending them back to the mainland, DESPITE the fact that the Chief Rabbi here and others were well aware of what was going on (I have a document somewhere from the Chief Rabbi in Dublin claiming the Jews in Europe were being prepared from extermination, this in 1941/2 iirc). One should note though that Ireland was hardly typical in this at the time; I think Sweden did the same time as did alot of European countries before the outbreak of war.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Not only was he pro-Hitler, he admired Franco. Sounds very fascist to me.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Not only was he pro-Hitler, he admired Franco. Sounds very fascist to me.

As sad as it is to admit practically everyone was pro-Franco in Ireland in the 1930s; this was not due alone to sympathy to fascism (though there certainly was alot of that around) but mainly to the intense catholic intellectualism that dominated the country really from independence up until the 1960s. One of the most widespread arguments against entering WWII for instance was that Catholic and Holy Ireland had no interest in war between a liberal state (Britain; liberal here being considered 'bad' and ungodly) allied with an Anticlerical State (France - rather o/c the USSR took this role and extended it) against a Pagan State (Germany).  I mean, even the Labour Party was pro-Franco.

During the Spanish Civil War the largest newspaper in Ireland at the time - The Irish Independent was very, very pro-Franco, I'll give you a few samples (taken admittely from a website not wholly reliable, but basically in the spirit of those I have read in real life - I know someone who has done research into this):

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These were written in the Indo by Charles J. McGuinness and were hardly unusual at the time - he wrote a series of articles for the paper. http://www.sailoroffortune.com/spanish_civil_war.htm

Note the casual anti-semitism... hardly unusual at the time, though Ireland had a tiny Jewish Population which mostly lived in a small district of Dublin along the South Circular Road and Harolds Cross.

See also: http://www.geocities.com/IrelandSCW/ (Yes Geocities I know but it's fairly good... pity most of the information on this is not online. It's a pity I can't anything on the Irish Christian Front, a clerical fascist group supported by a few TDs that wanted Ireland actively campaign for Franco in 1936, as opposed to De Valera's neutrality.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

...and that is why Ireland is an epic fail country.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

...and that is why Ireland is an epic fail country.

Yes because obviously Ireland in 1936 is the exact same country it is today!!1111.

[The Mikado]

I don't see a problem with it.  Ireland was neutral in the war and was offering condolences about the death of a foreign head of state.  International diplomacy isn't as simple as it is in a Tarantino movie.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don't see a problem with it.  Ireland was neutral in the war and was offering condolences about the death of a foreign head of state.  International diplomacy isn't as simple as it is in a Tarantino movie.

Sweden and Switzerland's leaders didn't do so. In fact near the end of the war they forcibly expelled all the staff at their German embassies. Ireland never did.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

I don't see a problem with it.  Ireland was neutral in the war and was offering condolences about the death of a foreign head of state.  International diplomacy isn't as simple as it is in a Tarantino movie.

Sweden and Switzerland's leaders didn't do so. In fact near the end of the war they forcibly expelled all the staff at their German embassies. Ireland never did.

On the plus side however Irish banks (in one of their few moral actions) did not accept money made from the profits from concentration camps and slavery nor did we sell Germany Iron ore right throughout the war.

[Јas]

Such a fascist and Hitler lover that the Irish-Jewish community in the 1966 funded the planting of 10,000 trees outside Nazereth in de Valera's honour in recognition of his consistent support for Ireland's Jews. The Éamon de Valera Forest is still there today.

In drafting the Constitution in 1937, de Valera gave legal protection to Judaism at a time when Europe was moving in a very different direction. IIRC, de Valera intervened on a number of occasions to ensure the acceptance of Jewish refugees from Europe - though certainly not  as often as maybe he should have done. And it was acting on his Government's behalf that our Ambassador to the Holy See gave protection to Jews there within the diplomatically protected Irish College in Rome during WWII.

Anyway, no, he shouldn't have signed the book, but it was an understandable decision given the official policy of neutrality. That doesn't make him a fascist - one has more than two decades of his premiership from which to make judgements on his political ideology and beliefs; fascism it was not.

By the by, as yourself and Winston Disraeli persist in this display of such hateful, bigoted and infantile attitudes towards Ireland and the Irish, it would probably save us all time and effort if you simply stuck some statement of your racism in your sig; that way we can do away with the need for your relentless defamatory threads.

[Hash]

No, but I'm certainly not a stupid OMG IRELAND SUCKS bigot (and idiot) like some in this thread.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There were some Freedom Fighters in Ireland during WWII. Some men volunteered for the British army, and there was an incident of a batch of firefighters crossing the border to assist in Belfast after the German bombing. But the country in general was a cowardly disgrace.

[afleitch]

Much of this thread seems to be an attempt at 'one upmanship' with regards what Ireland did during the 30's/40's which is bordering on the infantile and borderline racist. It was a complicated period for every country in Europe and Ireland was no different. As a nation it has, more than most, had to face up to it's past time and time again; particularly recently with a systematic failure of the Irish State to protect the vulnerable. The fact Ireland is capable of doing this and dealing with a tough economic downturn and being treated like a playground by the Pro/Anti European lobby over the referendum without going apesh-t is pretty bloody impressive.

[k-onmmunist]

There were some Freedom Fighters in Ireland during WWII. Some men volunteered for the British army, and there was an incident of a batch of firefighters crossing the border to assist in Belfast after the German bombing. But the country in general was a cowardly disgrace.

True.

[Јas]

There were some Freedom Fighters in Ireland during WWII. Some men volunteered for the British army,

Some being 100,000+

and there was an incident of a batch of firefighters crossing the border to assist in Belfast after the German bombing.

Dispatched by de Valera - obviously a fascist plot!

But the country in general was a cowardly disgrace.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Much of this thread seems to be an attempt at 'one upmanship' with regards what Ireland did during the 30's/40's which is bordering on the infantile and borderline racist. It was a complicated period for every country in Europe and Ireland was no different. As a nation it has, more than most, had to face up to it's past time and time again; particularly recently with a systematic failure of the Irish State to protect the vulnerable. The fact Ireland is capable of doing this and dealing with a tough economic downturn and being treated like a playground by the Pro/Anti European lobby over the referendum without going apesh-t is pretty bloody impressive.

Thank you. Exactly.

EDIT: Oh yeah, sorry for acting like a hack. It's just incredibly frustrating trying to counter BRTD's Crap. (And Jas said it better than me; I didn't even know of that forest. So hey, I learned something at least).

[hcallega]

No, but hindsight is 20-20. De Valera was acting in what he believed was the best interests for Ireland at the time, just like he thought neutrality was the best position in the war. I doubt many Irish at all would like to see a Europe dominated by Germany, but at the same time they didn't see the war like that. We as Americans are spoiled as FDR saw the war quite clearly as between good and evil. But if we had had an isolationist as President (say Joe Kennedy or Lindenburgh) then I guarantee you there would be more bad feelings. It's sort of like how people give Kennedy s**** for not moving faster on civil rights, even though there wasn't any political will until around the time that he did in fact introduce the Civil Rights Act. It's really easy to attack someone about something that seems so obvious now, but that dosen't make it right.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

How exactly did his doing so help Ireland? Did all countries earn a great respect for Ireland and be like "YEAH, AWESOME FOR BEING SO NEUTRAL!" or did it end up being a large blemish on Ireland's reputation? I think you all know the answer.

[minionofmidas]

How exactly did his doing so help Ireland? Did all countries earn a great respect for Ireland and be like "YEAH, AWESOME FOR BEING SO NEUTRAL!" or did it end up being a large blemish on Ireland's reputation? I think you all know the answer.

And its "neither" - as was predictable even then.

[KuntaKinte]

BRTD, I read some of your posts on Ireland, Irish republicanism and stuff like that.

I would like to know what's the reason for your hatred of the Irish nation.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's too closely tied to the Catholic Church, in a nutshell. Look at how the soupers (who of course became converts from Catholicism) were treated.

[KuntaKinte]

It's too closely tied to the Catholic Church, in a nutshell.

So you hate countries like Italy, Spain, Croatia and Poland too?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

It's too closely tied to the Catholic Church, in a nutshell.

So you hate countries like Italy, Spain, Croatia and Poland too?

NO! Don't tell him!