Bill would give President emergency control of Internet
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 02, 2024, 07:16:04 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Bill would give President emergency control of Internet
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3
Author Topic: Bill would give President emergency control of Internet  (Read 4598 times)
Sam Spade
SamSpade
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,547


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: August 28, 2009, 11:38:35 AM »

Headlining on Drudge.  Worth a discussion here, I think...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10320096-38.html

Bill would give president emergency control of Internet
by Declan McCullagh

Internet companies and civil liberties groups were alarmed this spring when a U.S. Senate bill proposed handing the White House the power to disconnect private-sector computers from the Internet.

They're not much happier about a revised version that aides to Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a West Virginia Democrat, have spent months drafting behind closed doors. CNET News has obtained a copy of the 55-page draft of S.773 (excerpt), which still appears to permit the president to seize temporary control of private-sector networks during a so-called cybersecurity emergency.

The new version would allow the president to "declare a cybersecurity emergency" relating to "non-governmental" computer networks and do what's necessary to respond to the threat. Other sections of the proposal include a federal certification program for "cybersecurity professionals," and a requirement that certain computer systems and networks in the private sector be managed by people who have been awarded that license.

"I think the redraft, while improved, remains troubling due to its vagueness," said Larry Clinton, president of the Internet Security Alliance, which counts representatives of Verizon, Verisign, Nortel, and Carnegie Mellon University on its board. "It is unclear what authority Sen. Rockefeller thinks is necessary over the private sector. Unless this is clarified, we cannot properly analyze, let alone support the bill."

Representatives of other large Internet and telecommunications companies expressed concerns about the bill in a teleconference with Rockefeller's aides this week, but were not immediately available for interviews on Thursday.

A spokesman for Rockefeller also declined to comment on the record Thursday, saying that many people were unavailable because of the summer recess. A Senate source familiar with the bill compared the president's power to take control of portions of the Internet to what President Bush did when grounding all aircraft on Sept. 11, 2001. The source said that one primary concern was the electrical grid, and what would happen if it were attacked from a broadband connection.

When Rockefeller, the chairman of the Senate Commerce committee, and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) introduced the original bill in April, they claimed it was vital to protect national cybersecurity. "We must protect our critical infrastructure at all costs--from our water to our electricity, to banking, traffic lights and electronic health records," Rockefeller said.

The Rockefeller proposal plays out against a broader concern in Washington, D.C., about the government's role in cybersecurity. In May, President Obama acknowledged that the government is "not as prepared" as it should be to respond to disruptions and announced that a new cybersecurity coordinator position would be created inside the White House staff. Three months later, that post remains empty, one top cybersecurity aide has quit, and some wags have begun to wonder why a government that receives failing marks on cybersecurity should be trusted to instruct the private sector what to do.

Rockefeller's revised legislation seeks to reshuffle the way the federal government addresses the topic. It requires a "cybersecurity workforce plan" from every federal agency, a "dashboard" pilot project, measurements of hiring effectiveness, and the implementation of a "comprehensive national cybersecurity strategy" in six months--even though its mandatory legal review will take a year to complete.

The privacy implications of sweeping changes implemented before the legal review is finished worry Lee Tien, a senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco. "As soon as you're saying that the federal government is going to be exercising this kind of power over private networks, it's going to be a really big issue," he says.

Probably the most controversial language begins in Section 201, which permits the president to "direct the national response to the cyber threat" if necessary for "the national defense and security." The White House is supposed to engage in "periodic mapping" of private networks deemed to be critical, and those companies "shall share" requested information with the federal government. ("Cyber" is defined as anything having to do with the Internet, telecommunications, computers, or computer networks.)

"The language has changed but it doesn't contain any real additional limits," EFF's Tien says. "It simply switches the more direct and obvious language they had originally to the more ambiguous (version)...The designation of what is a critical infrastructure system or network as far as I can tell has no specific process. There's no provision for any administrative process or review. That's where the problems seem to start. And then you have the amorphous powers that go along with it."

Translation: If your company is deemed "critical," a new set of regulations kick in involving who you can hire, what information you must disclose, and when the government would exercise control over your computers or network.

The Internet Security Alliance's Clinton adds that his group is "supportive of increased federal involvement to enhance cyber security, but we believe that the wrong approach, as embodied in this bill as introduced, will be counterproductive both from an national economic and national secuity perspective."
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,048


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2009, 11:54:07 AM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

I'm not going to tell that mother waiting outside her kids' pre-school to pick little Caitlin and Ethan up that we didn't do everything in our power to protect them from evildoers. Will you?
Logged
Earth
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,548


Political Matrix
E: -9.61, S: -9.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2009, 11:58:12 AM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

This is a vague, and frankly childish rationale.

I'm not going to tell that mother waiting outside her kids' pre-school to pick little Caitlin and Ethan up that we didn't do everything in our power to protect them from evildoers. Will you?

Yes, because this isn't the solution.
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,048


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2009, 12:00:12 PM »

This is a vague, and frankly childish rationale.

I was thinking "infantilizing" myself, but it seems to work with a large number of people. 
Logged
Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
GM3PRP
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,064
Greece
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2009, 12:04:02 PM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

Be honest, when Bush 43 had this same sentiment, your reaction was.......?
Logged
Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
GM3PRP
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,064
Greece
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2009, 12:08:20 PM »

One of things I despised about Bush was his 'give up your freedom to stay safe......and trust me with what you give up' attitude.......

I won't trust any politician with that power.
Logged
War on Want
Evilmexicandictator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,643
Uzbekistan


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -8.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2009, 12:19:40 PM »

I don't see the problem here. Cyberterrorism is a very real and valid threat to our security.
Logged
Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
GM3PRP
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,064
Greece
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2009, 12:21:37 PM »

I don't see the problem here. Cyberterrorism is a very real and valid threat to our security.

So we give such vast power to 1 man?  Sory, I don't see it being in our best interest.
Logged
Landslide Lyndon
px75
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,108
Greece


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2009, 12:26:59 PM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

Be honest, when Bush 43 had this same sentiment, your reaction was.......?

I was thinking the same thing.
Reagan's motto (Trust but Verify) applies here.
Logged
Mechaman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,791
Jamaica
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2009, 12:37:49 PM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

Be honest, when Bush 43 had this same sentiment, your reaction was.......?

I was thinking the same thing.
Reagan's motto (Trust but Verify) applies here.

Anybody still think that px75 is a closet partisan Dem?
Logged
Lief 🗽
Lief
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,020


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2009, 12:53:16 PM »

Obviously I oppose this.
Logged
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,011
United States


Political Matrix
E: 4.65, S: -2.78

P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2009, 01:01:42 PM »

I don't see the problem here. Cyberterrorism is a very real and valid threat to our security.

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

Be honest, when Bush 43 had this same sentiment, your reaction was.......?

I was thinking that exact same thing.

But I think some people are taking this to mean more than it does.  It's not that the President could take over the Internet and watch what we're doing.  It's that he could shut down the Internet traffic to/from gov’t and critical infrastructure networks and websites, as well as the periodic mapping of those networks.

The problem lies in the definition of the private critical infrastructure information systems: “nongovernmental information systems and networks in the United States designated by the President as critical infrastructure information systems and networks.”  It could be argued (or at least this is why I think people are so worried about this) that the President could if he wanted define Internet Service Providers as critical infrastructure systems and networks, which I guess could ultimately lead to issues with privacy.
Logged
Queen Mum Inks.LWC
Inks.LWC
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,011
United States


Political Matrix
E: 4.65, S: -2.78

P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2009, 01:03:37 PM »

I just found this on opencongress.org in the comments section.  Gosh, what a complete idiot - it shows how utterly stupid so many Americans are:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
War on Want
Evilmexicandictator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,643
Uzbekistan


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -8.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 01:07:48 PM »

Obviously if Bush was president I would be more distrustful of this bill but I'd still support this.
Logged
Sewer
SpaceCommunistMutant
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,236
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2009, 01:10:40 PM »

Obviously if Bush was president I would be more distrustful of this bill but I'd still support this.

O_o
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2009, 01:31:09 PM »

I don't like this at all, but the headline is more than a little misrepresenting.
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,048


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2009, 01:51:16 PM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

I'm not going to tell that mother waiting outside her kids' pre-school to pick little Caitlin and Ethan up that we didn't do everything in our power to protect them from evildoers. Will you?

For the record, this was me trying to write in the mode of the Bush Administration, ca. 2003. I didn't support executive power grabs then and I disapprove of Obama continuing practices like signing statements, unauthorized wiretapping, and continued indefinite detention.
Logged
Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
GM3PRP
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,064
Greece
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2009, 02:05:41 PM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

I'm not going to tell that mother waiting outside her kids' pre-school to pick little Caitlin and Ethan up that we didn't do everything in our power to protect them from evildoers. Will you?

For the record, this was me trying to write in the mode of the Bush Administration, ca. 2003. I didn't support executive power grabs then and I disapprove of Obama continuing practices like signing statements, unauthorized wiretapping, and continued indefinite detention.

Aha.......that makes sense.  Had us fooled....... Wink
Logged
RI
realisticidealist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,825


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2009, 02:30:05 PM »

I thought it was a pretty obvious parody. Tongue

Anyway, I agree with brittain33. The centralizing of executive power, whether a Democrat or a Republican is doing it, is concerning, at the very least. I used to rail against Bush for things like FISA, the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, and NSD-51, and I find this could be just as potentially alarming. I'd like to believe that Obama would be better than this, but perhaps the cynics are right about this one... Undecided
Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 40,483
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2009, 02:35:13 PM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

Be honest, when Bush 43 had this same sentiment, your reaction was.......?

I was thinking the same thing.
Reagan's motto (Trust but Verify) applies here.
^^^^^ this totally.

Please remember if this bill passes Obama will not be the last president to use its authority.
Logged
JSojourner
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,514
United States


Political Matrix
E: -8.65, S: -6.94

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2009, 03:34:12 PM »

If we know terrorists are using the Internet to plan how to hurt Americans, we need to give our President the tools he needs to keep us safe.

Be honest, when Bush 43 had this same sentiment, your reaction was.......?

I was thinking the same thing.
Reagan's motto (Trust but Verify) applies here.
^^^^^ this totally.

Please remember if this bill passes Obama will not be the last president to use its authority.

Correct.  I think, frankly, he would use the power quite timidly.  He's been timid about everything else since his election.  But no, we can't have this.  It's bad business.

Logged
aaaa2222
yoman82
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 305


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2009, 04:08:04 PM »

Ridiculous. Simply ridiculous.
Logged
Citizen James
James42
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,540


Political Matrix
E: -3.87, S: -2.78

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2009, 04:32:25 PM »

I looked through the bill - both found through the link in the article (Thomas guide) as well a by an different government website (GOV TRACK) and did not find anything giving "emergency control of the internet".  I really thought that CNET was above the whole 'series of tubes' mentality.

On specific points: "the cybersecurity workforce plan": the bill does not require implementation in 6 months - it requires a plan to measure security within 90 days, and implementation within a year.  The review is more comprehensive, regarding all cyber-policy.  It's like saying that all agencies must have an building evacuation plan within 90 days in case of fire, and a full review of OSHA standards within a year.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

There is no section 201.  Although the phrase "direct the national response to the cyber threat" quoted in the article does not exist in the bill, there is somewhat similar language in section 18(2):

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

The problem with this comes in defining what is a critical infrastructure information system or network.  Unfortunately, the bill defines it as being whatever the president says it is - per section 23 DEFINITIONS (3):

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I would like to see some sort of safeguard or oversight on that.    I understand in a real crisis time is of the essence - but accountability is also vital.   I may trust the current president, but I shudder to think how such power might be abused in the hands of someone like Bush or Palin (or even Romney).
Logged
War on Want
Evilmexicandictator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,643
Uzbekistan


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -8.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2009, 05:29:40 PM »

I don't really know why I am so comfortable with this bill, but why I am not with FISA, GITMO and other Bush failures. I just don't see any President abusing his power here, without there being an extremely large threat against American security. I can see scenarios where a President might use this for all of the wrong reasons but they seem to have such of a low chance of happening.
Logged
Vepres
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,032
United States
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2009, 05:38:55 PM »

So, a bill concerning the internet written by an old white guy, great...
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.057 seconds with 11 queries.