Question about saints

[Хahar 🤔]

What does the process of canonization do? Does it cause saintlihood, or does it simply recognize it?

In other words, are there saints who haven't been canonized?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good question.

[12th Doctor]

What does the process of canonization do? Does it cause saintlihood, or does it simply recognize it?

In other words, are there saints who haven't been canonized?

Recognize.  All people who die in a state of grace are "saints".  Individual communities, from the very, very beginning recognized people who had died as great servants of Christ as special people whose examples were to be followed.  Though the process has been formalized, it really is merely a formality and has no bearing on the question of whether or not someone is actually a "saint".

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Recognize.  All people who die in a state of grace are "saints". 

what's the purpose of declaring them saints after they're already dead?  and what about the current generation of those still alive who are living in a state of grace?  are they not also saints?

[12th Doctor]

Recognize.  All people who die in a state of grace are "saints". 

what's the purpose of declaring them saints after they're already dead?  and what about the current generation of those still alive who are living in a state of grace?  are they not also saints?

Yes, they are.  All people who are upright are part of the Communion of Saints.  I wasn't excluding that by saying "all people who die...."  The question asked was not concerning that part of the picture.  You don't believe in the Communion of Saints anyway, since you clearly draw a line between those who are "dead" and those who are not, so what is your problem?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Recognize.  All people who die in a state of grace are "saints". 

what's the purpose of declaring them saints after they're already dead?  and what about the current generation of those still alive who are living in a state of grace?  are they not also saints?

Yes, they are.  All people who are upright are part of the Communion of Saints.  I wasn't excluding that by saying "all people who die...."  The question asked was not concerning that part of the picture.  You don't believe in the Communion of Saints anyway, since you clearly draw a line between those who are "dead" and those who are not, so what is your problem?

never said I had a problem.  I was merely asking a question. 

But how is it that you say I don't believe in the communion of saints?  Doesn't the bible itself refer to it?:

Romans 16:15 "Greet Philologus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas and all the saints with them."

2 Corinthians 13:13 "All the saints send their greetings."

Philippians 4:21 "Greet all the saints in Christ Jesus. The brothers who are with me send greetings."

Philippians 4:22 "All the saints send you greetings, especially those who belong to Caesar's household."

I think these verses pretty much assume a communion of saints.

[12th Doctor]

Recognize.  All people who die in a state of grace are "saints". 

what's the purpose of declaring them saints after they're already dead?  and what about the current generation of those still alive who are living in a state of grace?  are they not also saints?

Yes, they are.  All people who are upright are part of the Communion of Saints.  I wasn't excluding that by saying "all people who die...."  The question asked was not concerning that part of the picture.  You don't believe in the Communion of Saints anyway, since you clearly draw a line between those who are "dead" and those who are not, so what is your problem?

never said I had a problem.  I was merely asking a question. 

But how is it that you say I don't believe in the communion of saints?  Doesn't the bible itself refer to it?:

Romans 16:15 "Greet Philologus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas and all the saints with them."

2 Corinthians 13:13 "All the saints send their greetings."

Philippians 4:21 "Greet all the saints in Christ Jesus. The brothers who are with me send greetings."

Philippians 4:22 "All the saints send you greetings, especially those who belong to Caesar's household."

I think these verses pretty much assume a communion of saints.

And yet, you consider any petition, or even the mere mention of those of the Communion who have passed out of this world to be a form of necromancy... which is wrong from the start, because necromancy which is prohibited by scripture, is to summon the dead, but regardless, it would seem to indicate that you think that people who have died are not part of the same community as the rest of Christians.  The idea of the Communion of Saints draws no distinction between the two.

I'd ask you to explain yourself, but then you would come up with your typical bogusness that centers around "why weren't they praying to Stephen?"  Which is a mischaracterization of the idea of intercession, and hinges on your laughable idea that everything that could possibly have anything to do with the faith is mentioned in the scriptures.  A notion that holds no weight, unless you subscribe to the notion that the Bible just fell out of the sky one day onto someones lap, complete and fully canonized, not to be viewed in the context of its individual writings.

[12th Doctor]

And so, if intercessory prayer is not a form of necromancy, then what is left to object to?

That you are putting someone between yourself and God?  Well, okay, but then in that case Paul is obviously a heretic, as is Jesus himself, because they both tell us to pray for one another.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

And yet, you consider any petition, or even the mere mention of those of the Communion who have passed out of this world to be a form of necromancy... which is wrong from the start, because necromancy which is prohibited by scripture, is to summon the dead, but regardless, it would seem to indicate that you think that people who have died are not part of the same community as the rest of Christians.  The idea of the Communion of Saints draws no distinction between the two.

Why did you choose to drag my beliefs into this when I was simply asking a question?...

The living saints are the only saints shown to be doing any actions within scripture…with the sole exception of that being in prophecy where the saints are shown to be judging the dead, and whatnot, AFTER the saints are resurrected.

In fact, dead saints are mentioned to be “ASLEEP” in Christ awaiting the resurrection (John 11:11;  Acts 7:60; Acts 13:16;  1Cor 11:30; 1Cor 15:6-20; 1Thes 4:13-15; 1Thes 5:6-10 ). 

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And yet, you consider any petition ….I'd ask you to explain yourself, but then you would come up with your typical bogusness that centers around "why weren't they praying to Stephen?"  Which is a mischaracterization of the idea of intercession

Ok, allow me to rephrase:  "why weren't they petitioning Stephen after he died?" 

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…and hinges on your laughable idea that everything that could possibly have anything to do with the faith is mentioned in the scriptures.  A notion that holds no weight, unless you subscribe to the notion that the Bible just fell out of the sky one day onto someones lap, complete and fully canonized, not to be viewed in the context of its individual writings.

2Tim 3:16 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

So, if the scripture can “thoroughly equipped for every good work”…remind me again what scripture is lacking?