Should the Canadian federal government force Quebec to repeal its language laws?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes. I'm not familiar enough with Canadian federalism to know how this could be done, but it has to. Those laws make me want to boycott Quebec, sadly I can't think of anything from Quebec I buy anyway.

[MaxQue]

Yes. I'm not familiar enough with Canadian federalism to know how this could be done, but it has to. Those laws make me want to boycott Quebec, sadly I can't think of anything from Quebec I buy anyway.

Canadian federal government tried very hard, but they didn't succeeded. What is the problem with those laws? There make so much sense in the historical context.

In English businesses, they were refusing to serve people talking in French. French businesses were working in English, too, since that was seen as the future. Unable to have higher education in French. English had all the money and they were using to kill French language.

Without those laws, French would have died in North America a couple of years ago.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yes. I'm not familiar enough with Canadian federalism to know how this could be done, but it has to. Those laws make me want to boycott Quebec, sadly I can't think of anything from Quebec I buy anyway.

Canadian federal government tried very hard, but they didn't succeeded. What is the problem with those laws? There make so much sense in the historical context.

I read a story once about a couple in Quebec that ran a business selling homemade maple syrup. Most of their customers lived in the US or the rest of Canada, so their website was English only. A French translation made no business sense. Well this was found out and they were fined for it. Then there's nonsense like KFC having to be called KPF, even though it is called KFC in France, and businesses facing fines for nonsense like not having their French signs significantly larger than their English ones. And the extreme lack of freedom in denying parents with a Francophone background the right to send their kids to Anglophone school.

[MaxQue]

Yes. I'm not familiar enough with Canadian federalism to know how this could be done, but it has to. Those laws make me want to boycott Quebec, sadly I can't think of anything from Quebec I buy anyway.

Canadian federal government tried very hard, but they didn't succeeded. What is the problem with those laws? There make so much sense in the historical context.

I read a story once about a couple in Quebec that ran a business selling homemade maple syrup. Most of their customers lived in the US or the rest of Canada, so their website was English only. A French translation made no business sense. Well this was found out and they were fined for it. Then there's nonsense like KFC having to be called KPF, even though it is called KFC in France, and businesses facing fines for nonsense like not having their French signs significantly larger than their English ones. And the extreme lack of freedom in denying parents with a Francophone background the right to send their kids to Anglophone school.

So, for PFK and the larger font for French, that was struck by the Supreme court. Now, that is only illegal to put another language larger than French. Most are doing signs in the same size. And businesses don't need to change their name, but most do it because studies proven than a store with an English name can lose more than 15% of potential customers because of that. We have a few extremists, I know. They do protestations against businesses who have English names and are always screaming than French is dying.

For Anglophone schools, that was because French parents and immigrants were putting their children in Anglophone schools, because that was the only way to have good education, since English is the language of the future. Now, we could delete that law without problems.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Yes. I'm not familiar enough with Canadian federalism to know how this could be done, but it has to. Those laws make me want to boycott Quebec, sadly I can't think of anything from Quebec I buy anyway.

Canadian federal government tried very hard, but they didn't succeeded. What is the problem with those laws? There make so much sense in the historical context.

I read a story once about a couple in Quebec that ran a business selling homemade maple syrup. Most of their customers lived in the US or the rest of Canada, so their website was English only. A French translation made no business sense. Well this was found out and they were fined for it. Then there's nonsense like KFC having to be called KPF, even though it is called KFC in France, and businesses facing fines for nonsense like not having their French signs significantly larger than their English ones. And the extreme lack of freedom in denying parents with a Francophone background the right to send their kids to Anglophone school.

So, for PFK and the larger font for French, that was struck by the Supreme court. Now, that is only illegal to put another language larger than French. Most are doing signs in the same size. And businesses don't need to change their name, but most do it because studies proven than a store with an English name can lose more than 15% of potential customers because of that. We have a few extremists, I know. They do protestations against businesses who have English names and are always screaming than French is dying.

For Anglophone schools, that was because French parents and immigrants were putting their children in Anglophone schools, because that was the only way to have good education, since English is the language of the future. Now, we could delete that law without problems.

     Yeah, the attitude of the Quebecois towards English is very hostile. My favorite example is that in France, stop signs can say STOP, but in Quebec they say ARRÊT. However, it is nearly impossible for any region to lose its primary language, short of invasion by an imperialist power. If they removed the language laws, I strongly doubt French in North America would be endangered anytime soon.

[2952-0-0]

     Yeah, the attitude of the Quebecois towards English is very hostile. My favorite example is that in France, stop signs can say STOP, but in Quebec they say ARRÊT. However, it is nearly impossible for any region to lose its primary language, short of invasion by an imperialist power. If they removed the language laws, I strongly doubt French in North America would be endangered anytime soon.

You'd be surprised how quickly language attrition can occur merely due to social factors. Given that in the 1950s, Quebec was becoming a diglossia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diglossia it was reasonable to expect that French would gradually die out like it did in Louisiana. Perhaps if the language laws were repealed, the language would be protected as most business and government groups are now controlled by Francophones.

Bilingualism at the federal level is another matter. I have no problem with bilingualism itself, but the federal government is providing French services in parts of the country where the language is not spoken. In Vancouver, at least, it makes far more sense to have services in English and Chinese instead.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Strange we already din't see Hash on this topic. Anyways, it obviously shouldn't.

[Хahar 🤔]

My favorite example is that in France, stop signs can say STOP, but in Quebec they say ARRÊT.

They should say ARRÊT in France, too.

[John Dibble]

The only thing worse than the French are the French-Canadians. I mean seriously, not only are they French but they're Canadian as well! It's like what you would get if George Bush and Sarah Palin had a child together and abandoned it, only for it to be found and raised by French speaking socialists.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The only thing worse than the French are the French-Canadians.

Hash, were are you ? If he were here, you wouldn't last any longer...

[John Dibble]

The only thing worse than the French are the French-Canadians.

Hash, were are you ? If he were here, you wouldn't last any longer...

Is he a French-Canadian? What's he going to do - challenge me to a hockey match and surrender?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is he a French-Canadian?

Yep !

[Hash]

One, I strongly doubt the federal government has the right to repeal provincial laws, especially in domains such as this one.

Secondly, as Max said, the law in the 1960s and 1970s made historical sense. In the Grande Noirceur and until the Quiet Revolution, Quebec business interests were dominated by wealthy English-speakers in Westmount and everything, from menus to medicine information, was in English, in a province which was by far majority French. And the education granted to the French population was the education of the Catholic Church and the UN government which ensured that everybody was dumb, poor and with little future. French was under serious threat by the '60's and '70's, so Law 101 made perfect sense, even if some clauses were excessively authoritarian.

Certain parts of Law 101 could, arguably, be repealed. The famous education clause which forces children of French-educated parents to go to French language schools is authoritarian and pure stupidity (and the reason why I'm a citizen of Ontario today). However, the nationalists will argue with you that if the clause is removed, you potentially face the risk of having English grow in Quebec - but English is growing in Quebec because of more immigration and because the clause only applies to elementary and secondary education, meaning that the clause does not apply to CEGEPs and universities. And the clause is also potentially open to loopholes of all sorts and so forth. And it's stupid (you must go to a French school if both parents were educated in French) and now represents the close-mindedness of certain Quebecois, mostly nationalists who are still sprouting OMG ENGLISH IS EVIL. And repealing it, imo, won't do anything important. And that type of linguistic nationalism also incites people, from open-minded liberal Quebecois to immigrants to immigrate to Ontario or the West instead of facing old regressive nationalism. Example: yours truly.

As to my answer, the law did good things for the French language in Quebec and the lack of language legislation in Quebec would seriously threaten the French language, and in this era of globalization and immigration, it is arguably even more under threat than before. I say this with no nationalist undertones (I would vote NO in any future independence referendum). Some facets of the language laws are necessary and should be kept, while others are stupid and their repeal wouldn't represent a blow to French in la belle province.

The close-minded nationalist attitude which exists in Quebec amongst many Pequistes (which consists of saying that English Canadians are evil monsters and evil evil evil) and exists in English Canada (which consists of saying that French sucks, that Quebec sucks) are both equally stupid and regressive. If people want to hold those ridiculous close-minded, nationalist, stupid and regressive views, then so be it. I don't really care.

As to the typical "Canada sucks" stupidity, I don't care. I've heard that bullsh**t enough and I stopped caring. And many times, it's nothing more than a joke, even if a joke in bad taste.

[Хahar 🤔]

Even if some of the measures don't make sense now, I think that the paranoia is understandable.

[Hatman 🍁]

Well, the language laws have been extremely succesful.

BRTD, you shouldn't knock the most left wing jurisdiction in North America. Despite the language laws, Quebec is an awesome place. You would love it there. There are strip clubs everywhere, with beautiful women, and fairly liberal liqour laws.

[Antonio the Sixth]

One, I strongly doubt the federal government has the right to repeal provincial laws, especially in domains such as this one.

Secondly, as Max said, the law in the 1960s and 1970s made historical sense. In the Grande Noirceur and until the Quiet Revolution, Quebec business interests were dominated by wealthy English-speakers in Westmount and everything, from menus to medicine information, was in English, in a province which was by far majority French. And the education granted to the French population was the education of the Catholic Church and the UN government which ensured that everybody was dumb, poor and with little future. French was under serious threat by the '60's and '70's, so Law 101 made perfect sense, even if some clauses were excessively authoritarian.

Certain parts of Law 101 could, arguably, be repealed. The famous education clause which forces children of French-educated parents to go to French language schools is authoritarian and pure stupidity (and the reason why I'm a citizen of Ontario today). However, the nationalists will argue with you that if the clause is removed, you potentially face the risk of having English grow in Quebec - but English is growing in Quebec because of more immigration and because the clause only applies to elementary and secondary education, meaning that the clause does not apply to CEGEPs and universities. And the clause is also potentially open to loopholes of all sorts and so forth. And it's stupid (you must go to a French school if both parents were educated in French) and now represents the close-mindedness of certain Quebecois, mostly nationalists who are still sprouting OMG ENGLISH IS EVIL. And repealing it, imo, won't do anything important. And that type of linguistic nationalism also incites people, from open-minded liberal Quebecois to immigrants to immigrate to Ontario or the West instead of facing old regressive nationalism. Example: yours truly.

As to my answer, the law did good things for the French language in Quebec and the lack of language legislation in Quebec would seriously threaten the French language, and in this era of globalization and immigration, it is arguably even more under threat than before. I say this with no nationalist undertones (I would vote NO in any future independence referendum). Some facets of the language laws are necessary and should be kept, while others are stupid and their repeal wouldn't represent a blow to French in la belle province.

The close-minded nationalist attitude which exists in Quebec amongst many Pequistes (which consists of saying that English Canadians are evil monsters and evil evil evil) and exists in English Canada (which consists of saying that French sucks, that Quebec sucks) are both equally stupid and regressive. If people want to hold those ridiculous close-minded, nationalist, stupid and regressive views, then so be it. I don't really care.

As to the typical "Canada sucks" stupidity, I don't care. I've heard that bullsh**t enough and I stopped caring. And many times, it's nothing more than a joke, even if a joke in bad taste.

Finally you're here ! I was waiting for your post...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

I knew that Quebec was very protective with the French language, far more than us, so to say, but I didn't know it took so much proportions in laws. I find most of the examples cited here stupid, not to say very stupid (the signs, the school because of the parents).

I live in France, so it's not me to say what is the best to do for Québec, but I'm not for the cultural protectionism when it is only aimed to protect something, I'm just for it when it is aimed to develop something, to carry something out. In Québec I don't know, but in France, the protectionism we more or less unconsciously practice, and anyways less and less (hell, if you heard youngs, trendy people here, not to speak of those who work in technician jobs, or in the media >>> English is clearly on), something totally lax by Québequois standards, is rather just aimed to protect our wonderful language, so, I can't support it.

Though as I find normal that we use English terms for terms that appeared in English speaking countries (instead of our more or less awful stupid translations of alchemists of the Académie française like "pourriel" for "spam", damn, everyone say spam, that's how a language live, by people speaking it, not by a bunch of intellectuals who try to impose their great ideas, just to make something "French", screw this protectionism, anyways, it doesn't really work here now), I also find normal that we use French term for things that come from here, and the same for any place and any language of the world.

It seems to me that Québequois are rather protectionist just in order to protect, so I wouldn't support them in their fight, but as I don't know enough the place, I can't really say. That's them to see for themselves.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Have to disagree that the laws were a "historical necessity" - there was never any chance of Québequois French dying out; the situation was and is quite different to the sometimes endangered minority languages of Western Europe as French is only a minority language in a wider Canadian context and Québequois society is quite clearly seperate (thanks to geography as much as anything else) from wider Canadian society. French is in fact the majority language and the idea that English being the language of the bourgeoisie and of commerce (an important fact in its own right, but lets come back to that later) constituted a threat to Québequois French is absurd. In fact French was in no real danger in the one part of the province (the isle of Montreal) where it was a minority language - residential segregation and the link between class and language put paid to that.

But that's the important part - the link between class and language, the fact that English was the language of trade and of the bourgeoisie. A situation in which the elite speaks a different language to the bulk of the population and uses the fact that it's a minority language to it's advantage is an explosive one. Again, I disagree that the backlash against English was a "historical necessity", but I do think it was inevitable (more or less).

[Smid]

It kind of reminds me of that graph of Christians saying "we're oppressed" while making up the majority... Just change it from "we're being oppressed" to whatever "our language is being suppressed" is translated to in French.

[Хahar 🤔]

It kind of reminds me of that graph of Christians saying "we're oppressed" while making up the majority... Just change it from "we're being oppressed" to whatever "our language is being suppressed" is translated to in French.

At one point, there was a situation like that of Ireland during the Lordship and early Kingdom. This, of course, basically killed the Irish language.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

It kind of reminds me of that graph of Christians saying "we're oppressed" while making up the majority... Just change it from "we're being oppressed" to whatever "our language is being suppressed" is translated to in French.

At one point, there was a situation like that of Ireland during the Lordship and early Kingdom. This, of course, basically killed the Irish language.

Ummm.. No.

[minionofmidas]

My favorite example is that in France, stop signs can say STOP, but in Quebec they say ARRÊT.

They should say ARRÊT in France, too.

EU uniformity.

[minionofmidas]

And the education granted to the French population was the education of the Catholic Church and the UN government which ensured that everybody was dumb, poor and with little future.

Now who could complain about that?

[Хahar 🤔]

It kind of reminds me of that graph of Christians saying "we're oppressed" while making up the majority... Just change it from "we're being oppressed" to whatever "our language is being suppressed" is translated to in French.

At one point, there was a situation like that of Ireland during the Lordship and early Kingdom. This, of course, basically killed the Irish language.

Ummm.. No.

Yeah, I guess I was exaggerating a bit.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

My favorite example is that in France, stop signs can say STOP, but in Quebec they say ARRÊT.

They should say ARRÊT in France, too.

EU uniformity.

Seriously? I don't know why we have "stop" here, it seems to me to have become rather international. Though "STOP" is fine, it's brief, easily comes, it works good for what it is purposed, "ARRET" would be too long to say A-RRET, no, "STOP" is better. Plus "stop" became hugely common in France, surely one of the most used words, we use to pronounce it like " 'top ".