Welfare Reform Bill 2009 (On the President's Desk)

[tmthforu94]

Aye

[Hash]

Nay. I prefer my amendment.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The use of the term "able-bodied" in this context is always a little disturbing. Only a matter of time before one of the brave Senators speaks highly of the "principle" of less eligibility.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I oppose both amendments. So Nay.


I don't like arbitrary standards broadly set. In some areas Community service work of the length that is suggested here is hard to come by. Doing more then 5 hrs of Job Searching is impractical especially considering that it costs money to look for a Job and no one seems willing to explain to me just how much benefits will be given out.

[MasterJedi]

Nay, I will support a reduction to 5 like NCY says. Otherwise it's really impractical.

[Franzl]

Nay

[Alexander Hamilton]

This bill is a trainwreck.

[afleitch]

This bill is a trainwreck.

There are certainly problems with Section 3 but that was apparent even to me when the bill was proposed. The bill is what we had in existance through to the 28th Senate; it's been revived and is now up for debate and amendment.

What do you think our welfare policy should be, during a time of recession given that we have none?

[MasterJedi]

With 2 Ayes, 6 Nays and 0 Abstentions this amendment has failed.

[Fritz]

I oppose this bill in its entirety.  Given the current recession, this is a very difficult time to be job searching.  It may take longer than 2 years for an unemployed person to find a job, in the current environment.  And felons, after being released from prison, have an extremely difficult time finding work.  I don't want to see homelessness being caused by laws passed by this body.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Proposal: Section 3 is eliminated, and remaining sections re-numbered accordingly.

I will not be supporting Hash's amendment either, for what it's worth.

[afleitch]

I oppose this bill in its entirety.  Given the current recession, this is a very difficult time to be job searching.  It may take longer than 2 years for an unemployed person to find a job, in the current environment.  And felons, after being released from prison, have an extremely difficult time finding work.  I don't want to see homelessness being caused by laws passed by this body.

At present there is no welfare policy. We simply give handouts. There is no option of state assisted learning or training or even upaid voluntary work that can be unhdertaken while in recipt of benefits. The current law offers no assistance other than a welfare cheque.

[Vepres]

Section 3 should simply say that they must apply for a certain number of jobs a month or apply for vocational training to be eligible should they be able-bodied.

[Fritz]

Sections 4, 5, and 6 are okay.  Sections 1, 2, and 3 simply add more restrictions to receiving assistance.  And, as others have pointed out, would be difficult to enforce.

If we strike sections 1-3, I could support this.

[MaxQue]

Section 3 should simply say that they must apply for a certain number of jobs a month or apply for vocational training to be eligible should they be able-bodied.

Well, in some places, you can't apply for jobs, since there is no avaliable jobs!

[afleitch]

Section 3 should simply say that they must apply for a certain number of jobs a month or apply for vocational training to be eligible should they be able-bodied.

Well, in some places, you can't apply for jobs, since there is no avaliable jobs!

True; which is why vocational training should be offered alongside job hunting to allow for a trade or a skill to be learned while unemployed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Section 3 should simply say that they must apply for a certain number of jobs a month or apply for vocational training to be eligible should they be able-bodied.

Well, in some places, you can't apply for jobs, since there is no avaliable jobs!

True; which is why vocational training should be offered alongside job hunting to allow for a trade or a skill to be learned while unemployed.

This is really the first recession in years that has affected all sectors of the economy as such getting a trade or skill would not guarrentee people employement.

For now I will support Marokai's amendment.

[afleitch]

Section 3 should simply say that they must apply for a certain number of jobs a month or apply for vocational training to be eligible should they be able-bodied.

Well, in some places, you can't apply for jobs, since there is no avaliable jobs!

True; which is why vocational training should be offered alongside job hunting to allow for a trade or a skill to be learned while unemployed.

This is really the first recession in years that has affected all sectors of the economy as such getting a trade or skill would not guarrentee people employement.

For now I will support Marokai's amendment.

I am willing to scrap Section 3 if it helps retain and move forward the rest of this bill.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Section 3 should simply say that they must apply for a certain number of jobs a month or apply for vocational training to be eligible should they be able-bodied.

Well, in some places, you can't apply for jobs, since there is no avaliable jobs!

True; which is why vocational training should be offered alongside job hunting to allow for a trade or a skill to be learned while unemployed.

This is really the first recession in years that has affected all sectors of the economy as such getting a trade or skill would not guarrentee people employement.

For now I will support Marokai's amendment.

I am willing to scrap Section 3 if it helps retain and move forward the rest of this bill.

Yet I am a little uncomfortable having no requirements at all. I would prefer to have it require people apply at two places per week or something like that.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Section 3 should simply say that they must apply for a certain number of jobs a month or apply for vocational training to be eligible should they be able-bodied.

Well, in some places, you can't apply for jobs, since there is no avaliable jobs!

True; which is why vocational training should be offered alongside job hunting to allow for a trade or a skill to be learned while unemployed.

This is really the first recession in years that has affected all sectors of the economy as such getting a trade or skill would not guarrentee people employement.

For now I will support Marokai's amendment.

I am willing to scrap Section 3 if it helps retain and move forward the rest of this bill.

Yet I am a little uncomfortable having no requirements at all. I would prefer to have it require people apply at two places per week or something like that.

I don't like the idea of forcing people to apply for a job at all. If there's no jobs, or very low paying jobs, we're essentially forcing people backwards on the income scale (and all the consequences that come with that) or threatening to cut of all assistance.

[MasterJedi]

This is the next amendment. I'll open up the vote tomorrow morning.

Amendment offered to Section 3:

Section 3

Any able-bodied Atlasian on public assistance and not currently working shall be required to do 20 hours of community service plus 15 hours of job searching and/or interviews; or they shall be eligible to undertake a vocational training course (either college or work-based or a combination of the two) of 25 hours per week. For any shortfall below 25 hours per week, they shall be required to do job searching and/or interviews depending on the total time spent in vocational training.

[Purple State]

I'm not really a fan of that entire first line. I agree with providing vocational training to help them learn a skill. Perhaps have them go to 5 hours of a job consultation a week, which would help them prepare for interviews, find jobs, etc.

[tmthforu94]

This is the next amendment. I'll open up the vote tomorrow morning.

Amendment offered to Section 3:

Section 3

Any able-bodied Atlasian on public assistance and not currently working shall be required to do 20 hours of community service plus 15 hours of job searching and/or interviews; or they shall be eligible to undertake a vocational training course (either college or work-based or a combination of the two) of 25 hours per week. For any shortfall below 25 hours per week, they shall be required to do job searching and/or interviews depending on the total time spent in vocational training.

I'm fine with this. I just think able-bodied Atlasians should have to give something back to Atlasia, for giving them assistance. Community service is a good way to do that.

[MaxQue]

I'm not really a fan of that entire first line. I agree with providing vocational training to help them learn a skill. Perhaps have them go to 5 hours of a job consultation a week, which would help them prepare for interviews, find jobs, etc.

Well, after a year, you will be more than prepared with that plan.

[Purple State]

I'm not really a fan of that entire first line. I agree with providing vocational training to help them learn a skill. Perhaps have them go to 5 hours of a job consultation a week, which would help them prepare for interviews, find jobs, etc.

Well, after a year, you will be more than prepared with that plan.

That's the hope.