Why should health care not be govt-run, if the police and firefighters are?

[Lief 🗽]

It's always struck me as odd that, when you call 911 because of an emergency, two of the three emergency services are free and government-run and one of them is for-profit. When a firefighter puts out the fire in your house or a police officer catches the guy robbing your house, they don't give you a bill. But if you're rushed to the hospital with a heart attack, if you're lucky enough to survive, you then need to pay someone money. Why is that? Should all three be nationalized or all three privatized or does it make sense that one of these three emergency services, meant to protect people and save lives, is for profit and private?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

As a general rule, if you suffer a heart attack and the government does nothing, it doesn't mean that another person will suffer a heart attack as a result.

However, if your house is burning and no one comes to help you fight the fire, your neighbor might well suffer as a result.

Similarly if the police don't catch the crook who robbed you, he's free to rob others (until someone blows him away with a gun.)

That's the difference between health care and police and fire services.  Failure to provide adequate health care does not have the same degree of side effects on others that failure to provide adequate fire and police services do.

[Person Man]

So, if someone can't be taken care of, we should just accept that they are not going to work? Of course, like I said, we can wait until the current system defaults...and see if you have the same opinion then.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

As a general rule, if you suffer a heart attack and the government does nothing, it doesn't mean that another person will suffer a heart attack as a result.

However, if your house is burning and no one comes to help you fight the fire, your neighbor might well suffer as a result.

Similarly if the police don't catch the crook who robbed you, he's free to rob others (until someone blows him away with a gun.)

That's the difference between health care and police and fire services.  Failure to provide adequate health care does not have the same degree of side effects on others that failure to provide adequate fire and police services do.

So what if someone catches the swine flu, but doesn't go to the doctor due to lack of insurance? As a result it's not diagnosed (that person may just believe it to be a bad cold and just try the typical remedies for such a thing) and they likely infect others.

[Jake]

What BRTD said.

If someone doesn't get preventative care, they could die or be forced not to work at a younger age. That either strains child welfare, social security, or both. If a kid doesn't get treated for things in childhood, they will be less capable of fighting off disease/illness when older which results in additional strain on the health care and welfare systems.

Sure, maybe we shouldn't cover hip replacements, major surgery, cancer treatments, etc. under a government provided health care plan, but it's tough to argue against covering tests, screenings, everyday medications, and other preventative methods; they save government programs money and lead to more productivity.

[politicaladdict]

It's always struck me as odd that, when you call 911 because of an emergency, two of the three emergency services are free and government-run and one of them is for-profit. When a firefighter puts out the fire in your house or a police officer catches the guy robbing your house, they don't give you a bill. But if you're rushed to the hospital with a heart attack, if you're lucky enough to survive, you then need to pay someone money. Why is that? Should all three be nationalized or all three privatized or does it make sense that one of these three emergency services, meant to protect people and save lives, is for profit and private?

Well one, read how the government works and you'll learn that the fire-departments and police-stations are NOT... at federal levels but at local county or even city levels. Otherwise, it would be a catastrophe to have them at a federal-level.

And two, I keep repeating this and I'm gonna repeat it again, why doesn't the useless government-controlled medicaid do that job.

And three, it's easier to put out a fire than it is for a complicated surgery and a alot of utilities to cure burn wounds.

[Meeker]

Not that I disagree with Lief, but to counter BRTD and Jake for the sake of argument, none of the things you guys listed are things you would really call 911 for, which is what I think Ernest was getting at.

The general idea of preventative care though is certainly valid in the long-run which is why I agree with Lief.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Not that I disagree with Lief, but to counter BRTD and Jake for the sake of argument, none of the things you guys listed are things you would really call 911 for, which is what I think Ernest was getting at.

The general idea of preventative care though is certainly valid in the long-run which is why I agree with Lief.

Exactly.  We need a robust public health system to deal with infectious diseases, but at the 911 emergency level, most health care does not have implications beyond the immediate patient, as police and fire emergencies do.

[dead0man]

Somebody needs to fight my ignorance...in what way are police and firefighters "nationalized"?

[Meeker]

Somebody needs to fight my ignorance...in what way are police and firefighters "nationalized"?

"Nationalized" is being used as a synonym for "government-run".

[dead0man]

Thank you.  Can we stop changing what words mean please.  It can get confusing for us slow people.

[Lief 🗽]

Thank you.  Can we stop changing what words mean please.  It can get confusing for us slow people.

Sorry about that. You're right that my choice of words wasn't really correct. Fixed.

[John Dibble]

So what if someone catches the swine flu, but doesn't go to the doctor due to lack of insurance? As a result it's not diagnosed (that person may just believe it to be a bad cold and just try the typical remedies for such a thing) and they likely infect others.

Wait, are you still scared of swine flu? Couldn't pick a better example, like maybe bubonic plague or something?

[Person Man]

The problem with pro-capitulation arguments on Health Care is that every one pays for it....no matter what.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It's always struck me as odd that, when you call 911 because of an emergency, two of the three emergency services are free and government-run and one of them is for-profit. When a firefighter puts out the fire in your house or a police officer catches the guy robbing your house, they don't give you a bill. But if you're rushed to the hospital with a heart attack, if you're lucky enough to survive, you then need to pay someone money. Why is that? Should all three be nationalized or all three privatized or does it make sense that one of these three emergency services, meant to protect people and save lives, is for profit and private?

Some crazy conservative would like to privatize firemens too. Health Care is an absolute human right that only public service can provide.

[Franzl]

Some crazy conservative would like to privatize firemens too. Health Care is an absolute human right that only public service can provide.

That's amusing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Some crazy conservative would like to privatize firemens too. Health Care is an absolute human right that only public service can provide.

That's amusing.

If you say so...

[opebo]

Some crazy conservative would like to privatize firemens too. Health Care is an absolute human right that only public service can provide.

That's amusing.

No, what's amusing is how deluded you and other american workers are.  Currently a huge percentage, perhaps 1/3 of Americans are denied access to health care, and most of the rest have only the most insecure, conditional, and tenuous sort of access - because it is not provided by the State as a public service.  So Antonio is precisely right - only public service can provide health care. 

Of course your system of forcing the poor to pay for a 'private' health care for a privileged elite works too, but it doesn't 'provide health care' for most people.