Should an administration's cabinet reflect the state's diversity?

[Earth]

I think we're getting off on the wrong foot in this thread. The implicitly held idea that a person in a particular ethnic or racial group would be looking out for their ethnicity's best interest is troublesome.

[Matt Damon™]

Is it in the interests of the people to have a government that looks like them? 

/playing devil's advocate

if the government is competent yes if they're not competent... no

[Lunar]

Borrrring

Fact is, especially in the U.S., there is a wealth of people qualified and competent for any job.  Given two equal candidates, should the effort be expended to make the administration demographically match the population?

No, because diversity is no guarantee that minorities, nor the average person will be better represented. Even a hispanic, or black, or asian politician could throw their constituents, and ethnicity, under a bus, to put it bluntly.

I think if diversity becomes an issue in an administration, it'll just be fodder for the media, a populist move, not necessarily in the best interest of 'the people'.

Of course, but women are probably far more likely to look out for the interests of women and represent the perspective of women than men, for example.

[Matt Damon™]

Borrrring

Fact is, especially in the U.S., there is a wealth of people qualified and competent for any job.  Given two equal candidates, should the effort be expended to make the administration demographically match the population?

No, because diversity is no guarantee that minorities, nor the average person will be better represented. Even a hispanic, or black, or asian politician could throw their constituents, and ethnicity, under a bus, to put it bluntly.

I think if diversity becomes an issue in an administration, it'll just be fodder for the media, a populist move, not necessarily in the best interest of 'the people'.

Of course, but women are probably far more likely to look out for the interests of women and represent the perspective of women than men, for example.

another argument against stacking governments with minorities as opposed to those who are the most competent regardless of group

[Mint]

No, I think adherence to affirmative action and/or quotas (which are supposed to be illegal) is problematic. Diversity is not in and of itself a virtue. That said if a cabinet is all white, there's probably something horribly wrong going on.

[Earth]

Borrrring

Fact is, especially in the U.S., there is a wealth of people qualified and competent for any job.  Given two equal candidates, should the effort be expended to make the administration demographically match the population?

No, because diversity is no guarantee that minorities, nor the average person will be better represented. Even a hispanic, or black, or asian politician could throw their constituents, and ethnicity, under a bus, to put it bluntly.

I think if diversity becomes an issue in an administration, it'll just be fodder for the media, a populist move, not necessarily in the best interest of 'the people'.

Of course, but women are probably far more likely to look out for the interests of women and represent the perspective of women than men, for example.

Sure, but that's no guarantee either way. A state could wind up with a prolifer like Palin, who humorously repeated a few times she's looking out for women, or one that's just plain ineffectual at their job.

[Person Man]

I would hire a less qualified minority or woman if that person shows that they have been able to take what has been given to them and has created a greater proportional return...as long as they are qualified. Basically, I believe in affirmative action for underprivileged people of any race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation that has shown that they have gotten further than where they started than the next person.

[Matt Damon™]

affirmative action is nothing but a way to create division

[John Dibble]

Ideally no. Race is simply a superficial social construct, the only possible value of which one might consider is difference in culture between the 'races'. In the US the cultural borders between races exist, but they are fading gradually and are not significant enough to warrant this sort of things, and there are enough constitutional protections in place to prevent one culture from lawfully forcing itself over the other to any significant degree.

However, as Lunar points out there are situations in the world where those cultural borders are significant enough that a diverse government has merit, but one of the goals of this kind of government should be to provide the kind of stability that will promote either cultural understanding and acceptance or a fade in the cultural borders so that the need for a diverse government is not necessary.

[minionofmidas]

Ideally yes, at least approximately so. (Or, alternatively, cabinet plus "shadow cabinet", or closest equivalent, should when taken together.)
However, trying to make your cabinet reflect diversity is basically trying to cure symptoms rather than solve the problem.

Basically, what I'm saying is when a group is continuously under- (or un)represented it's an obvious sign that something is wrong.

[Governor PiT]

No, why should it?

[Lunar]

Ideally no. Race is simply a superficial social construct, the only possible value of which one might consider is difference in culture between the 'races'. In the US the cultural borders between races exist, but they are fading gradually and are not significant enough to warrant this sort of things, and there are enough constitutional protections in place to prevent one culture from lawfully forcing itself over the other to any significant degree.

However, as Lunar points out there are situations in the world where those cultural borders are significant enough that a diverse government has merit, but one of the goals of this kind of government should be to provide the kind of stability that will promote either cultural understanding and acceptance or a fade in the cultural borders so that the need for a diverse government is not necessary.

But if no cultural differences exist and race were to fade to no longer represent social differences, then any randomly selected sample would represent the population as a whole and this would no longer be an issue.

[Lunar]

No, why should it?

There's some arguments in this thread.  I'm playing the devil's advocate here though...

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No.  It should be purely 100% based on qualifications, and then the wants of the candidate.

[Lunar]

No.  It should be purely 100% based on qualifications, and then the wants of the candidate.

So in Rwanda if the Hutus are all 50.001% more qualified for every government position than the Tutsis, that's enough to 100% disqualify Tutsis from the government?   Even though that country has a history of MASSIVE racial genocide?

I'm trying to argue not that you are wrong but the position is more nuanced than it would seem on face

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No.  It should be purely 100% based on qualifications, and then the wants of the candidate.

So in Rwanda if the Hutus are all 50.001% more qualified for every government position than the Tutsis, that's enough to 100% disqualify Tutsis from the government?   Even though that country has a history of MASSIVE racial genocide?

I'm trying to argue not that you are wrong but the position is more nuanced than it would seem on face

If the 2 groups get along, then yes.  But if conflict breaks out becausse of Hutusian officials, then they weren't qualified.

[Lunar]

The two groups do not get along.


So their very ethnicity could form part of the qualification??

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The two groups do not get along.


So their very ethnicity could form part of the qualification??

If they can't get past their differences, then yes.

[Lunar]

The two groups do not get along.


So their very ethnicity could form part of the qualification??

If they can't get past their differences, then yes.

So you're proposing a "racial divisiveness" meter where, depending how divisive racial divides are in a country, the race of the applicant becomes increasingly important?

[Хahar 🤔]

If there is extreme division, yes (and hire deputies on competence). Of course, it's unlikely such a government would stand for long.

[Lunar]

If there is extreme division, yes (and hire deputies on competence). Of course, it's unlikely such a government would stand for long.

Well, lots of governments exist with substantially different ethnicities exist within the state.

In most cases the split is not 50/50 and those states tend to fail.

But what about 90/10?  Those states exist all the time