Colorado or Alberta, which is more conservative?

[David Hume]

These two states are similar in a lot of sense. The east are plains and west are Rockies. Population are similar, 5.8 vs 4.4. Both have large metros that contains more than half of the population (Denver vs Calgary-Edmonton). Both are considered as mountain states and tourist attractions. The main difference is that AB relies heavily on the Oil industry.

The right wing party in AB dominates the left wing party. It is true that the Canadian Conservative is more moderate than GOP. Yet I am suspicious that even if COGOP moderates to CC level, it can dominate CO as CC did in AB.

[Skill and Chance]

Almost surely Alberta.   The things that make Alberta less conservative than a US red state were largely imposed federally with significant local resistance.

[King of Kensington]

Alberta is not a "state", and it is considered a Prairie province.

[kwabbit]

Alberta. Canada might be 'left' of the United States but that does not position its most conservative province to the left of most US states. Since it's a part of Canada, Alberta can't be conservative relative to an American state or any other polity because Alberta's politics are shaped around Canadian issues and politics. Alberta and the other prairie provinces possess all of the demographic and economic characteristics that would make them conservative in any political system

If Canada was integrated into the United States today, Alberta and Saskatchewan would be very likely to go R in 2024 and probably Manitoba too. Very White, less educated, and resource extraction based areas would not stay Democratic long, even if they might be D friendly for a short while. See how quickly similar areas can shift from 2012 to 2016.

[Skill and Chance]

Alberta. Canada might be 'left' of the United States but that does not position its most conservative province to the left of most US states. Since it's a part of Canada, Alberta can't be conservative relative to an American state or any other polity because Alberta's politics are shaped around Canadian issues and politics. Alberta and the other prairie provinces possess all of the demographic and economic characteristics that would make them conservative in any political system

If Canada was integrated into the United States today, Alberta and Saskatchewan would be very likely to go R in 2024 and probably Manitoba too. Very White, less educated, and resource extraction based areas would not stay Democratic long, even if they might be D friendly for a short while. See how quickly similar areas can shift from 2012 to 2016.

This.  No one is saying they would vote 70% Trump.

[King of Kensington]

Alberta would probably vote like Texas, assuming a more demographic-driven and less regionally polarized electorate.

[If my soul was made of stone]

Alberta never had the labor history that emerged in Colorado from the mineral economy and is still felt somewhat in Pueblo and other parts of the Hispano south that haven't been touristified, and their sort of Frackenlooper never even had the pretensions of being "alternative" that came with a history in brewing. You could make a case for Colorado Springs as an American Calgary, though the state's long moved from having two clear nodes as Alberta does to being dominated by the ever-sprawling Front Range morass.

[King of Kensington]

The Rockies run in a SE/NW direction, and they "thin out" north of the border.  In the US, the "Mountain West" is a region; in Canada they're the boundary between British Columbia and the Prairies.  Alberta and Saskatchewan are a lot more alike than Colorado and Kansas are.

[If my soul was made of stone]

The Rockies run in a SE/NW direction, and they "thin out" north of the border.  In the US, the "Mountain West" is a region; in Canada they're the boundary between British Columbia and the Prairies.  Alberta and Saskatchewan are a lot more alike than Colorado and Kansas are.

Ha-ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders: the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia,” but only slightly less well known is this: “The major metropolitan areas of Colorado are in the High Plains at the foothills of the Rockies, not beyond or within the Rockies themselves!”

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

Alberta easily, in 2020 I saw people point to polling which showed that fewer people would vote for Trump in Alberta then would in the most liberal states in the US but what I think they ignore is that it's easier to ignore political commitments from afar. Same way I know liberals in the US who hated Jeremy Corbyn but when I grilled them and pointed out the issues at stake in British elections they admitted that they'd still hold their nose and vote labour given that Boris Johnson would be the alternative.

[Skill and Chance]

The Rockies run in a SE/NW direction, and they "thin out" north of the border.  In the US, the "Mountain West" is a region; in Canada they're the boundary between British Columbia and the Prairies.  Alberta and Saskatchewan are a lot more alike than Colorado and Kansas are.

Ha-ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders: the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia,” but only slightly less well known is this: “The major metropolitan areas of Colorado are in the High Plains at the foothills of the Rockies, not beyond or within the Rockies themselves!”

I remember being shocked when I didn't see mountains at the Denver airport the first time I visited!

[If my soul was made of stone]

The Rockies run in a SE/NW direction, and they "thin out" north of the border.  In the US, the "Mountain West" is a region; in Canada they're the boundary between British Columbia and the Prairies.  Alberta and Saskatchewan are a lot more alike than Colorado and Kansas are.

Ha-ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders: the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia,” but only slightly less well known is this: “The major metropolitan areas of Colorado are in the High Plains at the foothills of the Rockies, not beyond or within the Rockies themselves!”

I remember being shocked that I didn't see mountains at the Denver airport the first time I visited!

OTOH, the mountain views from the Salt Lake City airport are incredible.

[King of Kensington]

Colorado is much more different than Kansas than Alberta is from Saskatchewan.  That was my point, not that "Denver is within the Rockies."

[OSR stands with Israel]

Alberta easily, in 2020 I saw people point to polling which showed that fewer people would vote for Trump in Alberta then would in the most liberal states in the US but what I think they ignore is that it's easier to ignore political commitments from afar. Same way I know liberals in the US who hated Jeremy Corbyn but when I grilled them and pointed out the issues at stake in British elections they admitted that they'd still hold their nose and vote labour given that Boris Johnson would be the alternative.

Also keep in mind the frontrunner in the Alberta Conservative Party race is someone who wants to use their power to nullify federal law and she is leading in hypothetical polls too vs other parties. Also the frontrunner in the Canadian Conservative Party Race is Pierre Poilievre someone who :

- Has Made their main campaign pledge to fire the gatekeepers which he defines as the consulting class, politicians, bureaucrats, or agencies

- His political candidacy was kicked of by backing the Trucker Protest

- He wants to basically implement DeSantis's anti woke laws in Canada. He has said he would do this by taking grants away from universities who he don't protect free speech


Really the Canadian Conservative Party is way more like the GOP than they are to the UK Tories and have been since 2003 with the exception of Erin O Toole's Leadership. Keep in mind in many polls Poilievre leads Trudeau in seats as well so yah

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

Alberta easily, in 2020 I saw people point to polling which showed that fewer people would vote for Trump in Alberta then would in the most liberal states in the US but what I think they ignore is that it's easier to ignore political commitments from afar. Same way I know liberals in the US who hated Jeremy Corbyn but when I grilled them and pointed out the issues at stake in British elections they admitted that they'd still hold their nose and vote labour given that Boris Johnson would be the alternative.

Also keep in mind the frontrunner in the Alberta Conservative Party race is someone who wants to use their power to nullify federal law and she is leading in hypothetical polls too vs other parties. Also the frontrunner in the Canadian Conservative Party Race is Pierre Poilievre someone who :

- Has Made their main campaign pledge to fire the gatekeepers which he defines as the consulting class, politicians, bureaucrats, or agencies

- His political candidacy was kicked of by backing the Trucker Protest

- He wants to basically implement DeSantis's anti woke laws in Canada. He has said he would do this by taking grants away from universities who he don't protect free speech


Really the Canadian Conservative Party is way more like the GOP than they are to the UK Tories and have been since 2003 with the exception of Erin O Toole's Leadership. Keep in mind in many polls Poilievre leads Trudeau in seats as well so yah

Makes a lot of sense, so much of the right-wing American media reaches into Canada and some Canadian radio stations even carry Alex Jones. I had no idea they'd gone that bug nuts but it doesn't surprise me sadly.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Alberta easily, in 2020 I saw people point to polling which showed that fewer people would vote for Trump in Alberta then would in the most liberal states in the US but what I think they ignore is that it's easier to ignore political commitments from afar. Same way I know liberals in the US who hated Jeremy Corbyn but when I grilled them and pointed out the issues at stake in British elections they admitted that they'd still hold their nose and vote labour given that Boris Johnson would be the alternative.

Also keep in mind the frontrunner in the Alberta Conservative Party race is someone who wants to use their power to nullify federal law and she is leading in hypothetical polls too vs other parties. Also the frontrunner in the Canadian Conservative Party Race is Pierre Poilievre someone who :

- Has Made their main campaign pledge to fire the gatekeepers which he defines as the consulting class, politicians, bureaucrats, or agencies

- His political candidacy was kicked of by backing the Trucker Protest

- He wants to basically implement DeSantis's anti woke laws in Canada. He has said he would do this by taking grants away from universities who he don't protect free speech


Really the Canadian Conservative Party is way more like the GOP than they are to the UK Tories and have been since 2003 with the exception of Erin O Toole's Leadership. Keep in mind in many polls Poilievre leads Trudeau in seats as well so yah

Makes a lot of sense, so much of the right-wing American media reaches into Canada and some Canadian radio stations even carry Alex Jones. I had no idea they'd gone that bug nuts but it doesn't surprise me sadly.

I mean the Canadian Reform/Alliance party's platform in 2000 was outright to the right of the GOP platform that same year and when they merged with the PC's they were the ones who had more of the influence and while that made the party to the left of the GOP again they were still to the right of the old Mulroney PC's by a good deal.

Keep in mind under Harper:

- the Tories in Canada outright feuded with the Dems over Keystone and were very right wing on Energy/Climate issues
- Cut Taxes
- Did Deregulation
- was very strict on refugees
-  Abolished the Gun Registry
- Cut Funding of Abortion in overseas projects


ETC

Keep this in mind that Poilievre is to the right of Harper so yah the Canadian Tories really are not to that much to the left of the GOP other than Erin' O Toole. Now at the province level you have people like Doug Ford who clearly are but keep in mind there are many Republican governors who are to the left of the national GOP too so its not really a good comparison as in Canada the National and Provincial parties are way more independent of each other than they are here.

[Skill and Chance]

Alberta easily, in 2020 I saw people point to polling which showed that fewer people would vote for Trump in Alberta then would in the most liberal states in the US but what I think they ignore is that it's easier to ignore political commitments from afar. Same way I know liberals in the US who hated Jeremy Corbyn but when I grilled them and pointed out the issues at stake in British elections they admitted that they'd still hold their nose and vote labour given that Boris Johnson would be the alternative.

Also keep in mind the frontrunner in the Alberta Conservative Party race is someone who wants to use their power to nullify federal law and she is leading in hypothetical polls too vs other parties. Also the frontrunner in the Canadian Conservative Party Race is Pierre Poilievre someone who :

- Has Made their main campaign pledge to fire the gatekeepers which he defines as the consulting class, politicians, bureaucrats, or agencies

- His political candidacy was kicked of by backing the Trucker Protest

- He wants to basically implement DeSantis's anti woke laws in Canada. He has said he would do this by taking grants away from universities who he don't protect free speech


Really the Canadian Conservative Party is way more like the GOP than they are to the UK Tories and have been since 2003 with the exception of Erin O Toole's Leadership. Keep in mind in many polls Poilievre leads Trudeau in seats as well so yah

Makes a lot of sense, so much of the right-wing American media reaches into Canada and some Canadian radio stations even carry Alex Jones. I had no idea they'd gone that bug nuts but it doesn't surprise me sadly.

I mean the Canadian Reform/Alliance party's platform in 2000 was outright to the right of the GOP platform that same year and when they merged with the PC's they were the ones who had more of the influence and while that made the party to the left of the GOP again they were still to the right of the old Mulroney PC's by a good deal.

Keep in mind under Harper:

- the Tories in Canada outright feuded with the Dems over Keystone and were very right wing on Energy/Climate issues
- Cut Taxes
- Did Deregulation
- was very strict on refugees
-  Abolished the Gun Registry
- Cut Funding of Abortion in overseas projects


ETC

Keep this in mind that Poilievre is to the right of Harper so yah the Canadian Tories really are not to that much to the left of the GOP other than Erin' O Toole. Now at the province level you have people like Doug Ford who clearly are but keep in mind there are many Republican governors who are to the left of the national GOP too so its not really a good comparison as in Canada the National and Provincial parties are way more independent of each other than they are here.

The main distinction is that Canada is much less religious, so it's reasonable Canadian conservatism would have more in common with relatively secular Trump era US conservatism than with Bush era conservatism.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Alberta easily, in 2020 I saw people point to polling which showed that fewer people would vote for Trump in Alberta then would in the most liberal states in the US but what I think they ignore is that it's easier to ignore political commitments from afar. Same way I know liberals in the US who hated Jeremy Corbyn but when I grilled them and pointed out the issues at stake in British elections they admitted that they'd still hold their nose and vote labour given that Boris Johnson would be the alternative.

Also keep in mind the frontrunner in the Alberta Conservative Party race is someone who wants to use their power to nullify federal law and she is leading in hypothetical polls too vs other parties. Also the frontrunner in the Canadian Conservative Party Race is Pierre Poilievre someone who :

- Has Made their main campaign pledge to fire the gatekeepers which he defines as the consulting class, politicians, bureaucrats, or agencies

- His political candidacy was kicked of by backing the Trucker Protest

- He wants to basically implement DeSantis's anti woke laws in Canada. He has said he would do this by taking grants away from universities who he don't protect free speech


Really the Canadian Conservative Party is way more like the GOP than they are to the UK Tories and have been since 2003 with the exception of Erin O Toole's Leadership. Keep in mind in many polls Poilievre leads Trudeau in seats as well so yah

Makes a lot of sense, so much of the right-wing American media reaches into Canada and some Canadian radio stations even carry Alex Jones. I had no idea they'd gone that bug nuts but it doesn't surprise me sadly.

I mean the Canadian Reform/Alliance party's platform in 2000 was outright to the right of the GOP platform that same year and when they merged with the PC's they were the ones who had more of the influence and while that made the party to the left of the GOP again they were still to the right of the old Mulroney PC's by a good deal.

Keep in mind under Harper:

- the Tories in Canada outright feuded with the Dems over Keystone and were very right wing on Energy/Climate issues
- Cut Taxes
- Did Deregulation
- was very strict on refugees
-  Abolished the Gun Registry
- Cut Funding of Abortion in overseas projects


ETC

Keep this in mind that Poilievre is to the right of Harper so yah the Canadian Tories really are not to that much to the left of the GOP other than Erin' O Toole. Now at the province level you have people like Doug Ford who clearly are but keep in mind there are many Republican governors who are to the left of the national GOP too so its not really a good comparison as in Canada the National and Provincial parties are way more independent of each other than they are here.

The main distinction is that Canada is much less religious, so it's reasonable Canadian conservatism would have more in common with relatively secular Trump era US conservatism than with Bush era conservatism.

Yah the GOP still has the issue of it still wants to fundamentally be the pre Trump era Republican party but decided to do it with Trumpian Vibes.