Is West Virginia a Southern state?

[Del Tachi]

It is the definitional anti-Southern state

If we are to assume the South is defined only by the Confederacy, then can we assume all who embrace a Southern identity do so solely in support of the Confederacy?

Belonging to the Confederacy is only a strong proxy for the presence of a system of plantation agriculture which forms the historical basis on which the South is differentiated from other regions of the country, not a necessary condition.  The South had been Southern long before any shots were fired at Fort Sumter, after all.

Places that share this history of plantation agriculture have had a mostly similar development in the post-Reconstruction era, especially demographically.  The defining link connecting the 21st century South with its antebellum predecessor is the presence of a strong WASP/Black bi-raciality; cities like Atlanta, Richmond, Raleigh, Memphis, etc. have very minimal White ethnic influence because they were never big destinations for European immigrants like cities in the Northeast/Midwest were.     

Sure, but clearly that isn't a complete definition. After all, not all slave states joined the CSA. And I'm fairly confident Dahlonega, GA--not known for plantation agriculture--is Southern.

I would disagree.  Georgia is a Southern state because its political and economic centers of power grew-up around plantation agriculture.  The state's history reflects this.  But Dahlonega (and North GA more broadly) always existed disconnected from this mainstream.  Dahlonega is indeed more like West Virginia than it is Macon or Augusta.   

But I'd be interested to hear why you're so confident Dahlonega is Southern.  Because it's Trumpian?  You're gonna have to do better than that. 

I have absolutely no idea where I implied that. A very odd thing to speculate.

It's Southern because everywhere has to be in one of the four regions, and it's obviously not in the Northeast, West, or Midwest. Once you accept this, you accept that places in the Appalachians can be part of the South. Therefore, there must be some place where you can draw a line across the Appalachians dividing the North and South. And there's no reason why that line might not be north of, or within, West Virginia.

If we're limited to working with only four regions then, yes, there's going to be some very uncomfortable fits.  Any categorization that puts Wheeling in the same region of the country as El Paso, as the USCB does, leaves a lot to be desired. 

Forget regionalism and return to the old core-periphery model.  Development creates divergence and spatial separation between a centralized, high-output "core" and a sub-ordinate periphery.  This ordering can be observed at global as well as local scales.  West Virginia being so peripheral to the high-income activities of either the antebellum or contemporary South very well places it in a distinct region; the state's own battle-born history reflects this reality.   

[OSR stands with Israel]

Look where CBS placed West Virginia in 1980 lol:



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8EJqLS1b5E

[Bismarck]

Yes but only by default. Kentucky is definitely southern and is the most similar state to it.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Look where CBS placed West Virginia in 1980 lol:



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8EJqLS1b5E

Admit it, that was supposed to be a prank you tried to fool us with - and I've been totally taken in by you. 😅

[OSR stands with Israel]

Look where CBS placed West Virginia in 1980 lol:



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8EJqLS1b5E

Admit it, that was supposed to be a prank you tried to fool us with - and I've been totally taken in by you. 😅

Sadly not lol

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Sadly not lol

I desperately tried to click on the video numerous times to start it, and I kept wondering why it didn't wanna work. lol.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Sadly not lol

I desperately tried to click on the video numerous times to start it, and I kept wondering why it didn't wanna work. lol.

Here

That particular part starts at the 8:25 mark

[7,052,770]

Not currently, but it could become one if WVU ever lands in the SEC, just as Missouri became a Southern state a decade ago and Oklahoma will become one soon.

[Sol]

The bigger question is kind of impossible to answer of course but I do find it necessary to point out that  Dahlonega and the coalfields of West Virginia are very dramatically different places. I kind of like the opposition of "Central Appalachia" (for historically coal-mining regions in Eastern Kentucky, WV, SWVA, a little bit of Tennessee) and "Southern Appalachia" for never or lightly industrialized regions, which have in some cases leaned into tourism (like the Shenandoah Valley, WNC, most of Eastern TN, North Georgia).

This doesn't work everywhere--Northern Alabama is a little problematic, for example--but I think it's an important point to drive home because Gatlinburg or Dahlonega are insanely different from Harlan or Beckley. In some ways, namely economically, these Southern Appalachian towns have a lot more in common with the metropolises in the lowlands than places with similar topographies to the north.

In any case, I think Del Tachi's argument for "the South as defined by WASP-Black bipolarity" is a pretty "view from Mississippi" way from looking at things. Sometimes I think folks want to read a non-Southernness into unionist politics in the Civil War era, but I don't think that holds, at least for the past 100 or so years. I think it's fairer to talk about another opposition, that between upland southerners and lowland White southerners, which IMO makes a lot more make sense.

Linguistics is actually a bit useful here; as I think Xahar has pointed out on his blog, English as it's spoken by most White southerners has moved in an increasingly "Southern" Appalachian direction in the past 100 years. Part of this to be sure is connected to white identity politics in relation to the civil rights movement, but the fact that it's specifically southern Appalachian varieties of English which have caught on elsewhere I think is indicative of these varieties (and their speakers) being seen and identifying as Southern.

[kia boyz '24]

Linguistics is actually a bit useful here; as I think Xahar has pointed out on his blog, English as it's spoken by most White southerners has moved in an increasingly "Southern" Appalachian direction in the past 100 years. Part of this to be sure is connected to white identity politics in relation to the civil rights movement, but the fact that it's specifically southern Appalachian varieties of English which have caught on elsewhere I think is indicative of these varieties (and their speakers) being seen and identifying as Southern.

Indeed, and this phenomenon is not exclusive to whites! As a (get your barf bags ready) 1/4th Patriots fan by blood, I spent my childhood listening to Randy Moss, my favorite non-Philly athlete of all-time and imo the greatest WR ever as Jerry Rice admitted to stickum use, give numerous postgame interviews as well as go onto be an analyst on ESPN. He was born in 1974, hailing from Rand WV, a suburb of Charleston. His Deep-Fried Dixie pipes leave me only envious to be cursed with a hoagie-mouthed garble:

[Person Man]

Only if you consider Southern Ohio, Indiana, Southern Illinois, Kentucky and Missouri "southern". I would consider them more "Southernized" than southern. Maybe Central PA and western MD can be considered that, too.

 Maryland east of Fredrick, Northern Delaware, Central, Eastern, and Northern Virginia are definitely "Northernized".

[If my soul was made of stone]

Maryland east of Fredrick, Northern Delaware, Central, Eastern, and Northern Virginia are definitely "Northernized".

Appalachian Maryland was always very Yankee, except maybe during Reconstruction, and Richmond, Hampton Roads, the Eastern Shore of VA, etc, are clearly Southern in character. Contrary to popular belief, voting for Democrats does not make a place Northern.

[Person Man]

Maryland east of Fredrick, Northern Delaware, Central, Eastern, and Northern Virginia are definitely "Northernized".

Appalachian Maryland was always very Yankee, except maybe during Reconstruction, and Richmond, Hampton Roads, the Eastern Shore of VA, etc, are clearly Southern in character. Contrary to popular belief, voting for Democrats does not make a place Northern.

It's really interesting how things combine in these border areas, especially given more and more intense polarization.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

If the only things that make a place definitionally Southern are "poor conservatives" then yeah sure I guess