Do you believe that this current predicament is RBG's fault?

[AtorBoltox]

No, it's the fault of the Republican party and its ceaseless radicalization

[GeneralMacArthur]

No, it's the fault of the Republican party and its ceaseless radicalization

Remember, the Republican Party has no agency and never bears any responsibility for the consequences of its actions.

It's just a force of nature, like the ocean tide or hurricanes.  The only actor that has any agency is the Democratic Party, in how it reacts to that force of nature.  Whenever that force of nature causes damage, it's 100% the Democratic Party's fault for not working harder to prevent it from happening.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

If Thurgood Marshall had waited for Clinton to become president before he retired, then Clarence Thomas never becomes a Supreme Court justice (and Al Gore likely becomes president, among other reverberations in history).

Comparing Marshall to RBG in this context isn’t sensible or fair to him, for several reasons:

1.) When Marshall retired, GHWB was extremeley popular, and he had no reason to believe he wouldn’t cruise to reelection in 1992.

2.) Even if GHWB lost in 1992, Marshall probably didn’t believe he would survive that long.  He died four days after Clinton took office.

3.) Marshall probably didn’t believe GHWB would nominate a candidate anywhere near as conservative as Thomas, or that such a candidate would be confirmed.  He had just nominated Souter the previous year; and when Reagan had tried to nominate an extreme conservate in Bork a few years before that, he was rejected by the Senate, which was still controlled by the Democrats.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

No.  I covered this extensively in another thread, but to put it simply, Ginsburg thought McConnell would just hold her seat open until 2016 if she retired (which he eventually did when Scalia left the court), so she wanted so she could be the decisive 5th vote in cases such as Obergefell.  The Democratic votes were most likely not there for a repeal of the filibuster to replace SC justices after 2010, which is why Sotomayor and Kagan both had to be appointed during the supermajority era.  After the "shellacking", Democrats fell to a 53-47 majority, and it's quite easy to see how McConnell, dedicated as he was to obstruction, would have been able to get 40/47 members of his caucus on board for a filibuster.  After all, he was already doing this with Obama's other judicial appointees!

Very specifically we are talking about after November 21, 2013 when the filibuster was eliminated for all other nominations and before the Republicans took over in 2015. McConnell couldn't have stopped them from going nuclear again.

She also could have done a conditional retirement on a replacement being confirmed. O'Connor did this and ending up retiring later than expected while Breyer didn't even leave for a while after confirmation.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

My favorite Supreme Court Justice wanted to serve a few more days and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

It's not just her fault it's D's fault for Ds Establishment making Hillary the face of the D party in 2016 Bernie or OMalley with Tim Kaine without Benghazi could of won the 303 map

But, just like Kerry picked Gaffe prone John Edwards that could of been Secretary or AG and Wes Clark or Gephardt could of been Veep due to gravitas there are no do overs

But, there was a reason why her family members didn't go on TV after their moms death due to questions about their moms timing, Scalia kids went on TV after their DAD died


Her kids are Jane and James Ginsberg

[Del Tachi]

RBG was lionized by online leftist types only because she was able to be molded into a caricature - a sassy yass kween Jewish grandma smacking down bigoted Evangelicals and conservative Catholics resonates with American liberals at a base cultural rather than a legal level.  For this reason the most enduring aspect of RBG's legacy was always destined to be coffee mugs, Halloween costumes, bobblehead dolls, children's books and other consumerist "merch."

Such a figure is only useful as long as they are living, of course. You can't "own" the cons from the afterlife.

[Person Man]

Somewhat to your first question, definitely yes to your second question. She REALLY should have resigned under Obama.

[Sir Mohamed]

Kind of, yup.

As I said many times, she should have stepped down in 2013 while Dems also had a comfortable 55 seat majority. She was already 80 at that time with some cancer history. Even if you ignore political realities and the GOP's power playgame, it's always better to step aside before the bitter end. That often gets you more respect and admiration. Unfortunately, most people in power positions, not just politics, struggle with that.

RBG for sure didn't this on purpose, but it's a strain her legacy because a 6-3 SCOTUS was avoidable.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Kind of, yup.

As I said many times, she should have stepped down in 2013 while Dems also had a comfortable 55 seat majority. She was already 80 at that time with some cancer history. Even if you ignore political realities and the GOP's power playgame, it's always better to step aside before the bitter end. That often gets you more respect and admiration. Unfortunately, most people in power positions, not just politics, struggle with that.

RBG for sure didn't this on purpose, but it's a strain her legacy because a 6-3 SCOTUS was avoidable.

It's Hillary's fault for Benghazi , just remember Bill Clinton appointed Ginsberg and he made assurances that Hillary wasn't gonna get get indicted but Loretta Sanchez and he promised that Trump was a sure loser and Hillary had to lose and she pulled down all of our candidates Strickland lost by 20 Ryan is tied with Vance and Rubio won by 10 on act blue Demings is down 46/48 Rubio isn't gonna win by 10 this Time

Ginsberg didn't retire in 2014 because she thought Hillary was gonna be Prez

Don't forget Jane's Carville is still active in D's party he pushed out Booker too early so that Biden can slaughter Bernie in SC that's why he got Clyburn to endorse Biden in SC, and he was active in Hillary campaign

[Beet]

Moderate hero take: Yes, RBG deserves some responsibility for her wrong decision not to retire when the right time presented itself in 2013-14. However, there is an excessive focus on vindictively blaming her in particular and this is the byproduct of misogyny in our society.

In reality there are many people to blame for the current predicament, such as the five most conservative Supreme Court justices, James Comey, Senators who voted to confirm certain justices, 2016 Trump supporters, etc.

[Sir Mohamed]

Moderate hero take: Yes, RBG deserves some responsibility for her wrong decision not to retire when the right time presented itself in 2013-14. However, there is an excessive focus on vindictively blaming her in particular and this is the byproduct of misogyny in our society.

In reality there are many people to blame for the current predicament, such as the five most conservative Supreme Court justices, James Comey, Senators who voted to confirm certain justices, 2016 Trump supporters, etc.

Ugh, the people blaming her are almost exclusively liberals and progressives (not saying misogyny doesn't exist in these groups). But saying she gets the blame because of misogyny is for sure a hot take. I would equally blame a male justice in the same position; and I think I speak for many liberals and progressives here.

The argument is also discounted after Dems grew increasingly impatient with Breyer in the months prior to his retirement. I would have been mad at him for not retiring this year and potentially dying or forced to resign for health reasons under the next GOP admin; or after the GOP takes the senate and blocks any Biden nominee.

[Beet]

Moderate hero take: Yes, RBG deserves some responsibility for her wrong decision not to retire when the right time presented itself in 2013-14. However, there is an excessive focus on vindictively blaming her in particular and this is the byproduct of misogyny in our society.

In reality there are many people to blame for the current predicament, such as the five most conservative Supreme Court justices, James Comey, Senators who voted to confirm certain justices, 2016 Trump supporters, etc.

Ugh, the people blaming her are almost exclusively liberals and progressives (not saying misogyny doesn't exist in these groups). But saying she gets the blame because of misogyny is for sure a hot take. I would equally blame a male justice in the same position; and I think I speak for many liberals and progressives here.

The argument is also discounted after Dems grew increasingly impatient with Breyer in the months prior to his retirement. I would have been mad at him for not retiring this year and potentially dying or forced to resign for health reasons under the next GOP admin; or after the GOP takes the senate and blocks any Biden nominee.

As you said, misogyny is also present among liberals and progressives. I never said "Sir Mohammed would not equally blame a male justice in the same position" or "there are not many liberals and progressives who would not equally blame a male justice", I simply pointed to the existence of a rather excessive and extreme obsession towards blaming RBG. You are the one who chose to take the comment personally... if the comment hurt you, you should perhaps reflect on why.

IMO, Breyer would be much more of a slam dunk if he didn't retire because he already had the warning of Ginsburg to look to. If Ginsburg had had another liberal justice who failed to retire before her and caused major repercussions, IMO she would have retired.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

I certainly am unhappy about the fact that Ginsburg chose to remain on the court far longer than she should have, but she is far from the primary reason that we are in our current crisis. She is not to blame for the fact that we have an absurd constitutional structure that creates incentives for the lifetime appointees of the judiciary to attempt to be clairvoyants as to the timing of their own deaths and the likely political circumstances in the country when they die.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Yes, and she could have saved Kay Hagan, Mark Udall, Charlie Crist, Martha Coakley, Anthony Brown, and Pat Quinn, from losing in 2014 had she retired that year.

I'm not so sure about that either. Democrats were very disengaged in 2014 and the Supreme Court was on the line in 2016 (though really it's on the line every year that presidential and Senate elections happen), yet that didn't help with turnout either. It seems like only after 2020, when Ginsburg died, that Democratic voters finally started giving a f*** about the Supreme Court. And certainly now too. But it's always after it's too late. It's a big problem with this country overall-we collectively as a population only learns lessons after the worst has happened. Again, ideally we can become more proactive now and try to salvage something out of this disastrous political system. State Supreme Court seats and numerous other "lesser" elections are happening this year, maybe we'll get an idea of whether a lesson was actually learned or not, depending on how those go.

[Ferguson97]

RBG should've retired but it wouldn't have saved Roe if she did.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

RBG should've retired but it wouldn't have saved Roe if she did.

There were four votes to uphold Roe and five to strike it down. One liberal justice instead of Barrett would have made the difference.

[Mr. Smith]

No, it's the fault of the Republican party and its ceaseless radicalization

Remember, the Republican Party has no agency and never bears any responsibility for the consequences of its actions.

It's just a force of nature, like the ocean tide or hurricanes.  The only actor that has any agency is the Democratic Party, in how it reacts to that force of nature.  Whenever that force of nature causes damage, it's 100% the Democratic Party's fault for not working harder to prevent it from happening.

You mean to say this ironically, but this is pretty much true.

[SWE]

There's something I don't understand about blaming her.  What if Hillary Clinton had won, wouldn't that have avoided the bad outcome?  Or what if the DSCC had done better in 2014 and confirmed Garland?  What if we go even further back and make Michael Dukakis President?  Maybe then we'd have fewer conservatives on the court.  It just feels to me that blaming her alone for the current state of the court overlooks the role many other people have had in creating the Supreme Court as it is today.

This is like saying that drinking and driving is fine as long as you get lucky and don't hit anyone. Whether or not she lost the gamble, gambling with people's lives is a terrible and unforgivably selfish thing to do in and of itself and it's something she chose to do.