Are atheist activists patriots?

[senatortombstone]

After answering the poll check this link to see what george washington's opinion was.

http://rwyouth.com/rock/news/founding/moral.html

[John Dibble]

Well, as much as I respect Washington as a leader and an individual, I disagree with him on religion. You can be a patriot and an atheist. However, to truly be a patriot of this country you have to allow people to worship as they choose - don't labor against religion, live and let live. There I agree with him.

On morality, I agree with him - though you don't need to be religious to have morality. A prosperous nation needs to be moral - though the government has little bearing on that - because moral men do not steal, kill, rape, or anything else greatly harmful to their fellow humans. If people did not have a sense of morality, society wouldn't be very cohesive - it would be chaotic and brutal.

[senatortombstone]

Well, as much as I respect Washington as a leader and an individual, I disagree with him on religion. You can be a patriot and an atheist. However, to truly be a patriot of this country you have to allow people to worship as they choose - don't labor against religion, live and let live. There I agree with him.

He never said that athiests aren't patriots, just the athiests who labor against religion.  Athiests who respect an individual's right to free religious expression are fine with Washington and with me.

The point is that groups like the ACLU, who claim to be patriotic, would not be to our first leader and first founder, George Washington.  that makes me feel good to know.

[Alcon]

I do not understand what it has to do with patriotism.

[phk]

Because a pre-requisite to be patriotic is to be Christian.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." - George HW Bush

[angus]

what if they're not really devout atheists?  seriously.  for example, my wife is about a devout an atheist as I am a devout catholic.  She was raised in post-Maoist china, after the ancient chinese religious traditions (poly-, and atheistic ones) were pretty much wiped out.  Officially, she is atheist, as officially I am Catholic.  But, in fact, she has greater theistic and spiritual tendencies than I.  For example, when we made a long trip across the desert, she bought a little statue of Buddha and prayed to it.  And, in fact, she has told me she does have a basic belief in a higher being, though she is not sure of its form or essense.  Now, I on the other hand, am Catholic, and have no particular belief in any diety, though I am certainly no atheist.  Atheists are at least as faithful as monotheists, IMHO.  So, there you have it.  The aforementioned is all true.  Why the f**ck should it matter?  Well, in fact, she is applying for a resident alienship (aka Green Card) and hopes eventually to be a citizen.  Now, in all seriousness, I don't think it matters one iota to the gov't whether she's monotheist, polytheist, atheist, or even irreligious.  But, as a theoritical construct, it should be noted that she is only one example of billions of atheists who really isn't a devout atheist. 

And to answer the question, I say:  Not sure.

Or, to answer more truthfully:  I don't really care.

Why should any of this matter to any of you, as it certainly doesn't matter to the government?  Nor should it.

<edited for content>

[Nation]

Why do I ALWAYS end up on your mullet thread, angus...




As for the question, it depends on your definition of patriot. Many do not consider the ACLU to be patriotic anyway, leaving religion out of the equation.

[angus]

Why do I ALWAYS end up on your mullet thread, angus...

okay, no more.  I even deleted this one just for you.  And Mr. Ashcroft 

[angus]

ah, jeez.  I only noticed the title, not the parenthetical part in the choices.  D'oh.  I see now 'atheist' is a metaphor for ACLU.

well, in that case:  I need to change my vote to NOT SURE.  Oh, hell, I guess it doesn't matter, since I put not sure before anyway. 

(note the use of "jeez" and "hell" as my interjections of choice here.  This obliquely shows solidarity with the monotheists.  I also obliquely show solidarity with homer simpson, an agnostic.  Obviously, I"m still misinterpreting the question.  Dammit!  Okay, right, it's ACLU we're talking about.  In that case:  I admire what they do and what they stand for.  I'm not sure whether they're patriots though.  United we stand with Rush Limbaugh.  The ACLU, Angus, and Rush:  A winning trio!)

[Nation]

ah, jeez.  I only noticed the title, not the parenthetical part in the choices.  D'oh.  I see now 'atheist' is a metaphor for ACLU.

well, in that case:  I need to change my vote to NOT SURE.  Oh, hell, I guess it doesn't matter, since I put not sure before anyway. 

(note the use of "jeez" and "hell" as my interjections of choice here.  This obliquely shows solidarity with the monotheists.  I also obliquely show solidarity with homer simpson, an agnostic.  Obviously, I"m still misinterpreting the question.  Dammit!  Okay, right, it's ACLU we're talking about.  In that case:  I admire what they do and what they stand for.  I'm not sure whether they're patriots though.  United we stand with Rush Limbaugh.  The ACLU, Angus, and Rush:  A winning trio!)

Don't forget NAMBLA!

[angus]

ah, jeez.  I only noticed the title, not the parenthetical part in the choices.  D'oh.  I see now 'atheist' is a metaphor for ACLU.

well, in that case:  I need to change my vote to NOT SURE.  Oh, hell, I guess it doesn't matter, since I put not sure before anyway. 

(note the use of "jeez" and "hell" as my interjections of choice here.  This obliquely shows solidarity with the monotheists.  I also obliquely show solidarity with homer simpson, an agnostic.  Obviously, I"m still misinterpreting the question.  Dammit!  Okay, right, it's ACLU we're talking about.  In that case:  I admire what they do and what they stand for.  I'm not sure whether they're patriots though.  United we stand with Rush Limbaugh.  The ACLU, Angus, and Rush:  A winning trio!)

Don't forget NAMBLA!

"TIMMY!"

"ssshhhh, goddammit, they'll hear you."

"timmy."

[dazzleman]

I theory, an atheist activist could be a patriot.

In practice, I'd bet my life that 90% of them aren't.

[nclib]

I voted 'yes', though the ACLU is not synonymous with atheism (i.e. there are atheists who don't support the ACLU and members of the ACLU who aren't atheist).

Loving one's God and loving one's country are two different things.

[Dr. Cynic]

There is no prerequisite to patriotisim, that is extremely condescending, and not at all along the lines of how this country was founded.