Do you believe Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States?

[Lunar]

Imagine if Obama was born on a foreign military base.

The Panama Canal Zone was much more than a military base.  It was U.S. territory at the time McCain was born there. 

Not that it matters for whether someone is a natural-born citizen as long as he or she has U.S. citizen parent(s) and the birth is correctly registered.

Correct on all points, didn't mean to mislead, I was just imagining that these conspiracy birthers would be up in arms even more if Obama was born on a piece of obscure U.S. territory.

There's a lot of bias out there on both sides, but it's just one of those questions from the Democratic perspective like "What if Obama had an unwed teenage pregnant daughter?"

[Purple State]

If he is natural-born, he sure knows how to hide it.

Yeah, the whole black thing makes you wonder doesn't it?

[Sam Spade]

In a legal sense, the correct answer is that it is "not proven", since we merely have word on it from himself and the State of Hawaii and have not seen an legit document. 

I'm actually curious why nothing has ever been released on it, except that maybe this is a good way to keep the fruitcakes occupied or make them appear to be more like fruitcakes, whichever (kind of like the 9/11 truthers nonsense).

But anyway, who cares?  It isn't like it would change anything to begin with, and besides who would want to open that can of worms even if it were true?  Not me.

As an aside, someone I converse with has told me a more interesting theory as to why no documents have ever been released on the subject.  Not that I believe it for one bit either, but it's a theory that is much more interesting, at least than this garbage.

[Torie]

In a legal sense, the correct answer is that it is "not proven", since we merely have word on it from himself and the State of Hawaii and have not seen an legit document. 

I'm actually curious why nothing has ever been released on it, except that maybe this is a good way to keep the fruitcakes occupied or make them appear to be more like fruitcakes, whichever (kind of like the 9/11 truthers nonsense).

But anyway, who cares?  It isn't like it would change anything to begin with, and besides who would want to open that can of worms even if it were true?  Not me.

As an aside, someone I converse with has told me a more interesting theory as to why no documents have ever been released on the subject.  Not that I believe it for one bit either, but it's a theory that is much more interesting, at least than this garbage.

Do we get the "more interesting" theory if only we stay tuned for the sequel Sam, or will it forever remain a riddle within a mystery wrapped in an enigma for those who are not blessed to be allowed through the closed doors where the cognoscenti cognate, or something?

[Lunar]

In a legal sense, the correct answer is that it is "not proven", since we merely have word on it from himself and the State of Hawaii and have not seen an legit document. 

I'm actually curious why nothing has ever been released on it, except that maybe this is a good way to keep the fruitcakes occupied or make them appear to be more like fruitcakes, whichever (kind of like the 9/11 truthers nonsense).

But anyway, who cares?  It isn't like it would change anything to begin with, and besides who would want to open that can of worms even if it were true?  Not me.

As an aside, someone I converse with has told me a more interesting theory as to why no documents have ever been released on the subject.  Not that I believe it for one bit either, but it's a theory that is much more interesting, at least than this garbage.

The state of Hawaii claims they are legally bound from releasing anything but a copy of the birth certificate.

This document, backed up by the state Hawaii is "enough" for me:

[cinyc]

In a legal sense, the correct answer is that it is "not proven", since we merely have word on it from himself and the State of Hawaii and have not seen an legit document. 

I'm actually curious why nothing has ever been released on it, except that maybe this is a good way to keep the fruitcakes occupied or make them appear to be more like fruitcakes, whichever (kind of like the 9/11 truthers nonsense).

But anyway, who cares?  It isn't like it would change anything to begin with, and besides who would want to open that can of worms even if it were true?  Not me.

As an aside, someone I converse with has told me a more interesting theory as to why no documents have ever been released on the subject.  Not that I believe it for one bit either, but it's a theory that is much more interesting, at least than this garbage.

Do we get the "more interesting" theory if only we stay tuned for the sequel Sam, or will it forever remain a riddle within a mystery wrapped in an enigma for those who are not blessed to be allowed through the closed doors where the cognoscenti cognate, or something?

One "theory" was that someone else was named as the father on Obama's original birth certificate.  Who knows?  And I really don't care.

The only thing I don't understand is why we don't require all politicians who are required by law to be citizens or natural born citizens in order to hold office to provide their original birth certificate to the various secretaries of state or boards of election.  You can't get a drivers' license in most states without providing your birth certificate.  Why should getting elected be different?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I read it as "is a natural-born" so I voted Yes, but I meant no.  People who disagree are wacky, IMO.

[Sam Spade]

Well, obviously, that's good enough for me too, Lunar.  But in a number of real-life situations, a copy of a birth certificate is not good enough.  Of course, as I'm sure you would probably note, no one has ever bothered to establish the *standard of proof* for this requirement, and no doubt no one ever will.  So what's the point?

And so we go on and on.  I think I'll get off the train here. 

[Lunar]

Fair enough.

I wonder if these conspiracy nuts realize that even if they're right and Obama wasn't born here, and the undeniable truth comes to light, it could very well result in President Joe Biden...I don't think they thought this through

[Sam Spade]

In a legal sense, the correct answer is that it is "not proven", since we merely have word on it from himself and the State of Hawaii and have not seen an legit document. 

I'm actually curious why nothing has ever been released on it, except that maybe this is a good way to keep the fruitcakes occupied or make them appear to be more like fruitcakes, whichever (kind of like the 9/11 truthers nonsense).

But anyway, who cares?  It isn't like it would change anything to begin with, and besides who would want to open that can of worms even if it were true?  Not me.

As an aside, someone I converse with has told me a more interesting theory as to why no documents have ever been released on the subject.  Not that I believe it for one bit either, but it's a theory that is much more interesting, at least than this garbage.

Do we get the "more interesting" theory if only we stay tuned for the sequel Sam, or will it forever remain a riddle within a mystery wrapped in an enigma for those who are not blessed to be allowed through the closed doors where the cognoscenti cognate, or something?

Nope.  I'll tell you right now.  A variant of it has popped up around kook conspiracy places, where the creativity level is much higher than Free Republic. (yes I know some may consider FR to be a kook conspiracy place, I consider it to be a less-organized right-wing version of Daily Kos or maybe a tad less infantile than DU, but I digress)

The theory is that the original birth certificate has a different name for Obama's father than the copy or that it has no name altogether and that this is the reason why it has never been released.

Its small basis in fact is that Obama's mother *got around* quite a bit, much like Bill Clinton's mother. 

The real entertaining kook conspiracy stretch (and you can find this through fun with Google) is that Obama's father is really Malcolm X.

[Lunar]

the image that proves it

[Sam Spade]

heh.

Actually, she (yes it is a she) does not make that connection with this theory - it's one I added myself. 

[Lunar]

Amusingly enough, it's hardly surprising, if not expected, that a half-African, half-White guy would more closely resemble Malcom X than his own 100% African father.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Free Republic is already full of "Even if the birth certificate is released now, it'll obviously be a forgery anyway" type talking points, so really Obama gains nothing by releasing. Let the kooks rave.

[cinyc]

Free Republic is already full of "Even if the birth certificate is released now, it'll obviously be a forgery anyway" type talking points, so really Obama gains nothing by releasing. Let the kooks rave.

The "kooks" who originally raved about Obama's birth certificate were Hillary-supporting Democrats.   

[Landslide Lyndon]

Free Republic is already full of "Even if the birth certificate is released now, it'll obviously be a forgery anyway" type talking points, so really Obama gains nothing by releasing. Let the kooks rave.

The "kooks" who originally raved about Obama's birth certificate were Hillary-supporting Democrats.   

You're funny.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Free Republic is already full of "Even if the birth certificate is released now, it'll obviously be a forgery anyway" type talking points, so really Obama gains nothing by releasing. Let the kooks rave.

The "kooks" who originally raved about Obama's birth certificate were Hillary-supporting Democrats.   

You're funny.

Actually he's basically correct, but it's moot. Obviously the vast majority of Hillary supporters never bought that nonsense, just the Hillary is 44 crowd. These were the same people spreading the lies that he was a closet Muslim (well technically before the Wisconsin primary I did too, though of course I was posing as a Hillary supporter. That was kind of fun.)

[Magic 8-Ball]

I'm amazed that any of you can visit Free Republic (or DU, for that matter) without your head exploding.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=opera&rls=en&hs=6yI&ei=5U4SStvsHaWsNanPzfkM&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Obama+%2B+%22malcolm+x%22&spell=1

Wow.

[cinyc]

Free Republic is already full of "Even if the birth certificate is released now, it'll obviously be a forgery anyway" type talking points, so really Obama gains nothing by releasing. Let the kooks rave.

The "kooks" who originally raved about Obama's birth certificate were Hillary-supporting Democrats.   

You're funny.

I'm also right.  The kook who brought the Obama birth certificate lawsuit in Pennsylvania was Phil Berg, a lifelong Democrat and Hillary Clinton supporter who's also a 9/11 troofer.

No party has a monopoly on wacko conspiracy theorist nutjobs.

[Platypus]

Free Republic is already full of "Even if the birth certificate is released now, it'll obviously be a forgery anyway" type talking points, so really Obama gains nothing by releasing. Let the kooks rave.

The "kooks" who originally raved about Obama's birth certificate were Hillary-supporting Democrats.   

You're funny.

Actually he's basically correct, but it's moot. Obviously the vast majority of Hillary supporters never bought that nonsense, just the Hillary is 44 crowd. These were the same people spreading the lies that he was a closet Muslim (well technically before the Wisconsin primary I did too, though of course I was posing as a Hillary supporter. That was kind of fun.)

You are so very full of it, BRTD.

[minionofmidas]

It's debatable.

If you believe most sentences that start with "if there were a massive conspiracy by the state of Hawai'i..." are debatable, sure I guess?

if there were a massive conspiracy by the state of Hawai'i...maybe THEY are the continent and WE ARE THE ISLANDS?

No, they are the CONTINENTS and you are ON the island.

[Democratic Hawk]

No