Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko

[Robespierre's Jaw]

Whilst my knowledge of the Soviet Union from 1964 to 1991 is ever so present in my mind, thanks to reading Fred Coleman's 1995 book The Decline and Fall of the Soviet Empire over the past week, I have been thinking about this question for the last hour or so. Had they both lived (Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko), who would have been the better leader of the Soviet Union?

Out of those two options I would say Leonid Brezhnev's successor as Supreme Soviet upon his death on November 10, 1982: Yuri Andropov.

I believe that Andropov, had he lived beyond 1984 would have undertaken similar reforms, similar to Mikhail Gorbachev's to revive the unthinkable, the Soviet Union. Although I believe that Andropov would be successful in his ventures to reform the Union, similar to Gorbachev, the Soviet Union still would have collapsed. If anything it should have collapsed way before the '90's and you can thank numerous Western nations, primarily the United States for that.

Considering Konstantin Chernenko was in ill health and was identically similar to Brezhnev in regards to reform, not to mention Chernenko wanted to please the Politburo, Chernenko wouldn't have pushed for reforms during his extended tenure as Supreme Soviet. He would have retained the status quo and the Soviet Union would have collapsed if not before 1991, then on time on December 25, 1991, though that is questionable through debate .

So who do you believe would have been the better leader of the Soviet Union, had they both had extended lives beyond their deaths in 1984 and 1985 respectively?

[Хahar 🤔]

Andropov, by far. He was a more moderate Khrushchev. Chernenko was just Brezhnev with a Ukrainian name.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

Andropov, by far. He was a more moderate Khrushchev. Chernenko was just Brezhnev with a Ukrainian name.

I concur with your statements Xahar. Though the only good thing about the 13 month reign of Konstantin Chernenko was that Mikhail Gorbachev, who chaired a vast majority of Politburo meetings during Chernenko's reign, primarily because of Chernenko's constant illnesses, was realistically running the Soviet Union from February 1984 to December 1991.

Considering that Gorbachev's reforms such as Perestroika, Glasnost, etc were only introduced in 1986, had Andropov’s ideal successor in 1984 replaced him, Gorbachev, the Soviet Union could have collapsed a little bit earlier rather than in December 1991.

[Хahar 🤔]

Andropov, by far. He was a more moderate Khrushchev. Chernenko was just Brezhnev with a Ukrainian name.

I concur with your statements Xahar. Though the only good thing about the 13 month reign of Konstantin Chernenko was that Mikhail Gorbachev, who chaired a vast majority of Politburo meetings during Chernenko's reign, primarily because of Chernenko's constant illnesses, was realistically running the Soviet Union from February 1984 to December 1991.

Considering that Gorbachev's reforms such as Perestroika, Glasnost, etc were only introduced in 1986, had Andropov’s ideal successor in 1984 replaced him, Gorbachev, the Soviet Union could have collapsed a little bit earlier rather than in December 1991.

Or Gorbachev may have been able to save the USSR. One can wish...

[Robespierre's Jaw]

Or Gorbachev may have been able to save the USSR. One can wish...

The Soviet Union's collapse was self evident during the reign of Brezhnev. The only man that potentially could have saved the Soviet Union from collapse would have been Alexei Kosygin, who would have undertaken Gorbachev-like reforms at a much earlier date. Had there been somewhere along the line where Brezhnev could have been toppled, though that never came. Though Supreme Soviet Kosygin probably would never have occurred considering usually the Deputy Party Secretary would succeed the leader upon their removal or death. In this case Kosygin was Premier of the Soviet Union and was never Deputy Party Secretary, the Soviet Union could never have revived her struggling economy. It was on the obituaries list long before December 25, 1991.

[Хahar 🤔]

Or Gorbachev may have been able to save the USSR. One can wish...

The Soviet Union's collapse was self evident during the reign of Brezhnev. The only man that potentially could have saved the Soviet Union from collapse would have been Alexei Kosygin, who would have undertaken Gorbachev-like reforms at a much earlier date. Had there been somewhere along the line where Brezhnev could have been toppled, though that never came. Though Supreme Soviet Kosygin probably would never have occurred considering usually the Deputy Party Secretary would succeed the leader upon their removal or death. In this case Kosygin was Premier of the Soviet Union and was never Deputy Party Secretary, the Soviet Union could never have revived her struggling economy. It was on the obituaries list long before December 25, 1991.

Deputy Party Secretary? I think you're reading too much into meaningless titles. In the Soviet Union, power went to those who wanted it, not to those who held a certain title.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

Deputy Party Secretary? I think you're reading too much into meaningless titles. In the Soviet Union, power went to those who wanted it, not to those who held a certain title.

You sound like Garrison for a second . Sure power in the Soviet Union went to those who wanted it, but it was a common occurrence from the Brezhnev years as Supreme Soviet onwards that the Deputy Party Secretary became Supreme Soviet. Nikita Khrushchev's deputy Leonid Brezhnev became leader in 1964. Leonid Brezhnev's deputy Yuri Andropov became leader in 1982. Yuri Andropov's deputy Konstantin Chernenko in 1984 and Konstantin Chernenko's deputy Mikhail Gorbachev became leader in 1985. The trend was cemented in place since the death of Joseph Stalin in 1953, it was irreversible.

[Хahar 🤔]

Deputy Party Secretary? I think you're reading too much into meaningless titles. In the Soviet Union, power went to those who wanted it, not to those who held a certain title.

You sound like Garrison for a second . Sure power in the Soviet Union went to those who wanted it, but it was a common occurrence from the Brezhnev years as Supreme Soviet onwards that the Deputy Party Secretary became Supreme Soviet. Nikita Khrushchev's deputy Leonid Brezhnev became leader in 1964. Leonid Brezhnev's deputy Yuri Andropov became leader in 1982. Yuri Andropov's deputy Konstantin Chernenko in 1984 and Konstantin Chernenko's deputy Mikhail Gorbachev became leader in 1985. The trend was cemented in place since the death of Joseph Stalin in 1953, it was irreversible.

I'd attribute it as much to coincidence as anything else.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

I wonder who voted for Konstantin Chernenko?

To the person that did vote for Chernenko, you do realise that unlike Andropov, who is likely to have undertaken reforms similar to Gorbachev's, Chernenko had he lived would have kept the status quo in the Soviet Union, similar in regard to Leonid Brezhnev during his tenure as leader of the Soviet Union. Whilst I might be heading off track, I highly doubt that Chernenko would have been a better leader of the Soviet Union compared to Andropov, had they both lived extended lives, though that is my two cents on the matter.