Even if they hadn't rigged the election, would Medvedev still have won?

[Meeker]

Probably still would've won in the first round IMO

[GMantis]

Certainly, his democratic opponents are not exactly popular and Putin, who is still popular, backed him.

[True Democrat]

IMO, elections themselves aren't nearly as rigged as the process is.

[ag]

IMO, elections themselves aren't nearly as rigged as the process is.

Exactly. The voting day violaitons is the least you could talk about. Not that it's not important recording them, but there is no doubt that Medvedev would have gotten the majoirty of the vote cast even if all were kosher. For that matter, so would Putin's dog (even if it were shown to engage in gay intercourse with a dead kitten in prime time 24 hours before the elecition).

Except: this wasn't an election.

[The Mikado]

The election wasn't so much rigged on election day as long before.  The real rigging is only allowing the crazy jokesters as real opposition.

God knows almost anyone could get elected president of Russia running against a Communist, VLADIMIR F'ING ZHIRINOVSKY, and that no-name "liberal," B...something.  So, why bother rigging it?  Hell, a free and fair election would encourage people to turn out to vote for Medvedev.  Who the hell wants to send a signal, cast his vote for a minor candidate...and wake up and realize he'd put VLADIMIR F'ING ZHIRINOVSKY in the Kremlin?

[Middle-aged Europe]

IMO, elections themselves aren't nearly as rigged as the process is.

^^^


In theory, Medvedev could have lost the election, provided that:
1) The Kremlin wouldn't control most of the media in Russia.
2) The requirements for participating in elections wouldn't be so high, that basically all opposition parties except for the Communists are struck from the ballot.
3) The requirements for founding parties wouldn't be so high, that the formation of new opposition parties is legally impossible.

In short, Medvedev could have a lost the election in a pre-Putin Russia. Then again, in pre-Putin Russia he possibly wouldn't have become Deputy PM or a presidential candidate.

[minionofmidas]

The election wasn't so much rigged on election day as long before.  The real rigging is only allowing the crazy jokesters as real opposition.

God knows almost anyone could get elected president of Russia running against a Communist, VLADIMIR F'ING ZHIRINOVSKY, and that no-name "liberal," B...something. 

Andrey Bogdanov. A local councillor from some Moscow suburb. How he collected the necessary signatures is an, ahem, mystery.

[GMantis]

IMO, elections themselves aren't nearly as rigged as the process is.

^^^


In theory, Medvedev could have lost the election, provided that:
1) The Kremlin wouldn't control most of the media in Russia.
2) The requirements for participating in elections wouldn't be so high, that basically all opposition parties except for the Communists are struck from the ballot.
3) The requirements for founding parties wouldn't be so high, that the formation of new opposition parties is legally impossible.

In short, Medvedev could have a lost the election in a pre-Putin Russia. Then again, in pre-Putin Russia he possibly wouldn't have become Deputy PM or a presidential candidate.

Considering how popular the western praised oppostion is in Russia, he would probably still have won in this scenario. Of course, if the oppositon bought the election, like Yeltsin did in 1996...

[Middle-aged Europe]

IMO, elections themselves aren't nearly as rigged as the process is.

^^^


In theory, Medvedev could have lost the election, provided that:
1) The Kremlin wouldn't control most of the media in Russia.
2) The requirements for participating in elections wouldn't be so high, that basically all opposition parties except for the Communists are struck from the ballot.
3) The requirements for founding parties wouldn't be so high, that the formation of new opposition parties is legally impossible.

In short, Medvedev could have a lost the election in a pre-Putin Russia. Then again, in pre-Putin Russia he possibly wouldn't have become Deputy PM or a presidential candidate.

Considering how popular the western praised oppostion is in Russia, he would probably still have won in this scenario. Of course, if the oppositon bought the election, like Yeltsin did in 1996...

On the other hand... provided the situation in Russia wouldn't be the way I described it above, Medvedev himself could actually have been one of those "western praised" candidates.

[minionofmidas]

Yes, he would have won. I voted first round, but really, it would probably have been close on the first round. (And I'm including biased media coverage, Kasyanov's exclusion, pressure to turn out to vote, and the situation in Ingushetia and Chechnya under "rigging" here.)

[Хahar 🤔]

Of course.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

This is Russia we are talking about afterall.

[ottermax]

Democracy has never occurred in Russian history... except now. It might take a few decades, maybe centuries; the Russians have historically been slow to change except for the occasional violent revolution.

[GMantis]

Democracy has never occurred in Russian history... except now. It might take a few decades, maybe centuries; the Russians have historically been slow to change except for the occasional violent revolution.

Actually, considering the number of major changes this century alone, Russia is far more changeful than the US or even Europe.

[ottermax]

Democracy has never occurred in Russian history... except now. It might take a few decades, maybe centuries; the Russians have historically been slow to change except for the occasional violent revolution.

Actually, considering the number of major changes this century alone, Russia is far more changeful than the US or even Europe.

In Democratic governments, every change in party, or even leader could be considered a major shift. Russia was controlled by the same sort of governing for long periods of time, and took forever to progress, only abolishing serfdom in the middle of the industrial revolution.

[platypeanArchcow]

Democracy has never occurred in Russian history... except now. It might take a few decades, maybe centuries; the Russians have historically been slow to change except for the occasional violent revolution.

Actually, considering the number of major changes this century alone, Russia is far more changeful than the US or even Europe.

In Democratic governments, every change in party, or even leader could be considered a major shift. Russia was controlled by the same sort of governing for long periods of time, and took forever to progress, only abolishing serfdom in the middle of the industrial revolution.

To be fair, a little before the US abolished slavery, and with a lot less blood.

Also, every change of CC chairman was a major shift, I think more significant than shifts in democratic governments: Lenin -> Stalin -> Khrushchev -> Brezhnev -> (skip a few) -> Gorbachev.

I think there's an view that is unfortunately common in Russia that there's something special about Russia that makes it need strongmen and be unable to adapt to democracy.  This will certainly be a hindering factor for a while.

[GMantis]

Democracy has never occurred in Russian history... except now. It might take a few decades, maybe centuries; the Russians have historically been slow to change except for the occasional violent revolution.

Actually, considering the number of major changes this century alone, Russia is far more changeful than the US or even Europe.

In Democratic governments, every change in party, or even leader could be considered a major shift. Russia was controlled by the same sort of governing for long periods of time, and took forever to progress, only abolishing serfdom in the middle of the industrial revolution.

To be fair, a little before the US abolished slavery, and with a lot less blood.

Also, every change of CC chairman was a major shift, I think more significant than shifts in democratic governments: Lenin -> Stalin -> Khrushchev -> Brezhnev -> (skip a few) -> Gorbachev.

I think there's an view that is unfortunately common in Russia that there's something special about Russia that makes it need strongmen and be unable to adapt to democracy.  This will certainly be a hindering factor for a while.

Unfortunately, going from historical experience, this view is true.